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How do you beat the middlemen/flippers on eBay?

Dan S
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Maybe in one particular case a flipper paid too much, but if you are regularly losing auctions to dealers, you probably just don't have a good handle on current market value. By definition, a flipper needs to buy a watch at a deep discount in order to make any sort of decent profit after fees and shipping costs. The flipper's main hope is to find a poorly photographed or inaccurately described watch that they can buy cheaply.
 
Awetaylor
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Dan S Dan S
Maybe in one particular case a flipper paid too much, but if you are regularly losing auctions to dealers, you probably just don't have a good handle on current market value. By definition, a flipper needs to buy a watch at a deep discount in order to make any sort of decent profit after fees and shipping costs. The flipper's main hope is to find a poorly photographed or inaccurately described watch that they can buy cheaply.

Which is what happened in this case. Blurry photos, and virtually no description.
 
vlaspri
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Reading this thread and others about flippers and their methods, I think Vice should film a YouTube documentary as they usually do on other topics. This should be about flippers and all the difficulties they meet on their way buying watches cheap and wishing to sell much higher. With blurred faces and all the stuff like that 😀
 
Wlcutter
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Awetaylor Awetaylor
Which is what happened in this case. Blurry photos, and virtually no description.

To be clear, though, I'd say again that the dealer overpaid on this; I don't know the DeVille market that well, but I'm not seeing examples of these going for significantly more than what he's already in for it. The larger question of how you beat flippers is a good, valid Q, but on this watch I think you were wise to let it go at that.

Also—and I think this goes for all of us—there are few aches weirder than being the underbidder. Everyone has stories; most of us still replay old what-ifs about certain watches that sold for only a bit more than our highest bid. Presumably, whoever bid $15.25M for Paul Newman's Daytona still wonders if s/he made the right call, too. Part of what you're feeling now's just that feeling, that you're the underbidder.

vlaspri vlaspri
Reading this thread and others about flippers and their methods, I think Vice should film a YouTube documentary as they usually do on other topics. This should be about flippers and all the difficulties they meet on their way buying watches cheap and wishing to sell much higher. With blurred faces and all the stuff like that 😀

If there were a program about folks who chase overlooked value it'd be *fascinating*. There's a book called Killer Stuff and Tons of Money, about US antique sellers, that covers similar territory (not watch related) and is well worth the read.
 
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Mark020
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Thanks. Ordered that 😀
 
Awetaylor
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Wlcutter Wlcutter
there are few aches weirder than being the underbidder.

How poetic, it described my feelings very well.

And I agree, in this case, for a watch of that condition, the flipper paid too dearly for it.

Then again, maybe there is someone out there who'll take it of their hands. Now that I said it, Murphy's law dictates it MUST happen
 
redpcar
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Flippers don't bother me. More power to them if they can make a profit. They have to buy wholesale and sell retail. I rarely buy from them. Always check out the "other items for sale" and see what they are up to.

I've long stopped watching shopgoodwill.com. Prices for junk were stupid. Made me wonder if people were writing off the purchases as "donations"

I prefer open air flea markets. Face to face negotiations. Digging for treasures. If you HAVE to have an Omega, it might be frustrating but if you are simply looking for a neat watch, the fun can't be beat.
 
Dan S
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Maybe I am an outlier, but I certainly don't expect to win the majority of the auctions in which I bid. I accept that there will usually be someone who wants a given watch more than I do.
 
Wlcutter
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Dan S Dan S
Maybe I am an outlier, but I certainly don't expect to win the majority of the auctions in which I bid. I accept that there will usually be someone who wants a given watch more than I do.

Huge, huge yes on this; I'm currently winning 6 auctions, but expect to be outbid on most if not all of them.

And, to @Awetaylor: I expect most of us who've chased watches for awhile have, at least once, chosen to go All In. If the watch is right, and if it's what you *really* want, you simply make it impossible to lose. Awhile back there was a watch on ebay that wasn't fancy, nor well-known, nor highly valuable, but I really liked it. I presumed it would go somewhere in the $200 range, and ended up being right, but my bid was for $2k. I simply wanted it.

If you're bidding on something just because it's worth it at the right price, set your bid and go. If it's something you really, really want, figure out how important it is to you, knowing that you may pay well over market, and then just be happy when you get it.
 
redpcar
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Wlcutter Wlcutter
Huge, huge yes on this; I'm currently winning 6 auctions, but expect to be outbid on most if not all of them.

And, to @Awetaylor: I expect most of us who've chased watches for awhile have, at least once, chosen to go All In. If the watch is right, and if it's what you *really* want, you simply make it impossible to lose. Awhile back there was a watch on ebay that wasn't fancy, nor well-known, nor highly valuable, but I really liked it. I presumed it would go somewhere in the $200 range, and ended up being right, but my bid was for $2k. I simply wanted it.

If you're bidding on something just because it's worth it at the right price, set your bid and go. If it's something you really, really want, figure out how important it is to you, knowing that you may pay well over market, and then just be happy when you get it.

Been there.
The bidding goes something like this: "F-me?, oh yeah?, F-YOU!!"
 
Dan S
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Wlcutter Wlcutter
And, to @Awetaylor: I expect most of us who've chased watches for awhile have, at least once, chosen to go All In. If the watch is right, and if it's what you *really* want, you simply make it impossible to lose.

Hopefully there isn't someone else simultaneously putting in a bid that makes it "impossible to lose".
 
Realtime
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I have only been buying and selling on eBay for a year now and what an education the last year has been. I certainly agree that you need to employ the sniper strategy when bidding to be successful and it’s definitely prudent to set your upper limit based on your research prior to bidding.

Like most, I’ve made some good buys on regular listings by making reasonable offers but am rarely successful on winning auction items. I think that’s merely a function of the vast number of buyers one is competing against and the brands that I am chasing along with the legions of serious collectors and hobbyists. I absolutely agree that the fun/challenge is hunting down the hidden gem underneath an extremely scratched crystal or jumping on a new listing that is significantly priced under market value.

Now what to do wth the dogs, like the piece of junk that I bought from a far away land for $1000 US that just isn’t worth the bother to return at this point. I certainly don’t want to pass on my misfortune to someone else, so it I’ll remain in a drawer until figure out what to do with it.

All in all for all of the shortcomings people share on buying and selling on eBay and concerns on some of their newer policies, I still feel it’s a worthwhile platform that taps into a global showroom. There will always be snake oil salesmen, but they’re pretty easy to spot these days and their reputation will usually precede them.
 
Vitezi
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Dan S Dan S
Hopefully there isn't someone else simultaneously putting in a bid that makes it "impossible to lose".
On this forum, that's known as an "Ashley bidder." 😉
 
kingsrider
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When I first started collecting, my purchases were very modest. I always looked at the watch from an equity standpoint. Could I improve the aesthetics of the watch? A new crystal? A new gasket? A proper band? Could I have the watch serviced and and still have the total cost under my assumed market value? I am lucky. I have a watchmaker that is really helpful and inexpensive. He doesn't mind if I source the parts. He just won't warranty them.

This approach really helped me to make sound decisions on which watches to bid on, and how high I could comfortably go.
I really didn't intend to start flipping. It just started to happen as my tastes and focus became more defined.

Below is a good example of what I am talking about. A real calamity before (Ebay listing picture). A huge improvement after sourcing the correct hands, crystal and gasket. I have about four hundred dollars in sweat equity I estimate.
memomatic hands.jpg 2019-07-01 001.JPG
Edited:
 
Wlcutter
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Dan S Dan S
Hopefully there isn't someone else simultaneously putting in a bid that makes it "impossible to lose".

Vitezi Vitezi
On this forum, that's known as an "Ashley bidder." 😉

@Vitezi: I hadn't any idea about the etymology of the Ashley bid; how cool.

@Dan S: absolutely. This is obv different if you're tracking something that's popular at that moment (a steel pie-pan 168.005, say) and something more under the radar, but, at least for me, if it's something I really want, I just decide to do an absurd price. Like, double what I expect the most aggressive, shameless dealer would ask. Maybe that just speeds up the inflation of the market anyway.
 
michael e
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@Awetaylor.
Forgot to mention.....
If you think being outbid makes you fuming, wait until you win or "buy it now" a watch for a great price on eBay and then some parasite offers the seller more afterwards and you lose that purchase 😡 now that is annoying.
Cheers, Michael
 
Syrte
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The prices of vintage watches have gone up so much that no one can seriously count on getting a bargain these days.

If you really want something, you need to be prepared to pay top dollar for it— or be prepared to lose it and move on.
That means you have to pick your battles.
 
Davidt
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Don’t let it bother you.

Like @Dan S i don’t expect to win the majority of auctions I bid on. I’m not short of watches so I’m general Im not going to pay an elevated price. I’m more looking for the diamond in the rough from the first owner.

Occasionally there’ll be a watch I really want and I’ll put the proverbial nuclear bid in, but we’re probably talking only one or two watches a year like that.

Ultimately, bid what you want to pay. What everyone else does is out of your hands.
 
apsm100
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michael e michael e
@Awetaylor.
Forgot to mention.....
If you think being outbid makes you fuming, wait until you win or "buy it now" a watch for a great price on eBay and then some parasite offers the seller more afterwards and you lose that purchase 😡 now that is annoying.
Cheers, Michael

Darn, I should have done this on the watches I took too long deciding to 'buy it now'. 😉

I think in the last 4 years I am still in the red for my purchases so I don't thinking flipping is for me.

I liken losing out a watch to losing out on a stock with a limit buy and then watching it rise 50% within a week.

ARGH; tough to be a novice.
 
redpcar
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michael e michael e
@Awetaylor.
Forgot to mention.....
If you think being outbid makes you fuming, wait until you win or "buy it now" a watch for a great price on eBay and then some parasite offers the seller more afterwards and you lose that purchase 😡 now that is annoying.
Cheers, Michael

My search is for "Buy it now", "Newly listed". That way when I buy it, hopefully it will be taken down before other people are able to tempt the seller with a higher price.
 
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