How do you beat the middlemen/flippers on eBay?

Awetaylor · Jan 18, 2021

I am fuming...

I saw an interesting auction on a Seamaster Deville cal. 630 on eBay. The seller was clearly an elderly gent who just wanted to sell off his watch at a reasonable price. The pictures of the watch were very blurry, and he wasn`t able to take a clearer one. Bit of a gamble, but he seemed honest and genuine upon questioning, and I did my research.

So I bid...

Last second, the bid is sniped by someone at £411. I think to myself "it could be a young collector who really wanted it more than you, that's okay" or "the pictures are so blurry that it was a risky bid anyway".

Two days later I see the same watch put on sale at £700, by the same bidder. Looking at the clearer pictures he put up, the watch is definitely not worth that, even £411 is a stretch. The person has a few watches on sale and seems to do this thing regularly. However, it was an honest watch that would have made someone happy at the prices it was bid for.

---------

How do you beat these people, do you contact the sellers directly and try and make an offer privately?

What are your techniques to avoid being beaten by some flipper?

Or is this a case where I'm just being a sore loser, and I need to accept this happens and move on?

Darlinboy · Jan 18, 2021

You've just acknowledged the winning high bid was a stretch. Consider yourself fortunate and move on. They don't all end this way, even eBay can be a decent hunting ground for the patient and well prepared. 👍

connieseamaster · Jan 18, 2021

Get a better bid sniping program

michael e · Jan 18, 2021

I buy watches from eBay and flip them as a business, I also sell watches that are in turn flipped by other dealers or collectors for a profit.
I say good luck to everyone.
I miss out on plenty of watches at auction and buy it now, it used to sting but not any more. (Well a bit sometimes )
The one thing I recommend is bidding as high as you want to go and are comfortable with, if you win.... brilliant, if you lose, dust yourself down and carry on, something better and cheaper is always around the corner trust me, if you put the time in and have the knowledge the hunt is one of the best parts.
Cheers, Michael

Awetaylor · Jan 18, 2021

Darlinboy
You've just acknowledged the winning high bid was a stretch. Consider yourself fortunate and move on. They don't all end this way, even eBay can be a decent hunting ground for the patient and well prepared. 👍

I feel reassured that they don't all end this way, let's hope the next one ends more favorably

Learning to "move on" and "being patient" are the skills that I am still in the process of developing, for this hobby anyway 😟

Awetaylor · Jan 18, 2021

michael e
trust me, if you put the time in and have the knowledge the hunt is one of the best parts.

This is where I identify that I might be being a sore loser, I loved the process, the game, the discovery.

And then I felt I lost in an "unfair manner", or maybe I'm just pissed off that I lost.

michael e · Jan 18, 2021

Awetaylor
This is where I identify that I might be being a sore loser, I loved the process, the game, the discovery.

And then I felt I lost in an "unfair manner", or maybe I'm just pissed off that I lost.

Most watch collectors/dealers/flippers have probably felt the same way at one time or another.
Don’t beat yourself up, the one you really want is just around the corner 👍
It’s a big pond with a lot of beautiful, fascinating, generous and also down right horrific creatures in it, and I am talking about both watches and people here.
Try to keep it fun and try not to let it get you down.

Awetaylor · Jan 18, 2021

Thanks for the support!!

Clearly still very green when it comes to this game.

Onwards and upwards!

kaapstadflaneur · Jan 18, 2021

I agree with @michael e on this. Bid your maximum price, and you'll win if there's no one willing to bid more than that. I don't see how anyone can be upset at losing an auction if someone else was willing to pay more than your maximum bid.

S.H. · Jan 18, 2021

IMHO, there are two options:
1) you really want something, then research, get a quick idea of its worth, and bid very late and very high
2) if it is just drive-by shooting on something shiny, no big loss. There is an enormous amount of interesting watches, every week there are some popping up on ebay, so better luck next time.

Really, keep in mind that you did not lose anything anyway other than some precious time. It is frustration that clouds the judgment and when we are frustrated, we make bad buys, all of us. Just keep an open mind and try to broaden your horizon beyond Rolex/Omega/Sub/Speed, and keep away from the latest fad.

Engee · Jan 18, 2021

For all of its faults eBay is close to what economists describe as a perfect market, not that there can ever be an actual perfect market. The point is that there are numerous buyers and sellers, so price manipulation is very difficult, or impossible. Bidding is transparent. Auctions are fair because they allow the seller to achieve the highest price that the market is willing to pay, and buyers are able to pay no more than they want. When you bid on an item you either get the item for what you are willing to pay, or less.

It's also worth remembering that flippers need to buy below market value in order to make a profit. It's very hard for dealers to buy on eBay because they are competing with buyers who can absorb at least some of the dealer's profit margin in their bids. Their success therefore comes from spending more time scouring for things that everyone else may have missed. Not an easy way to make money.

People get upset about sniping, but all it does is allow a bidder to keep their bid secret until the last second. That only works against sellers who would like bids to keep rising through the course of the auction thus encouraging people to outbid their maximum intended amount. If another bidder has already committed to a higher amount the snipe will fail. There's nothing cheating about it. In this case, you lost the auction to someone who was prepared to pay more than you, or else you would have put a higher maximum on your bid. What they then decide to do with the watch is up to them. Taking a risk on dodgy images and then re-presenting the watch with better images and information may help them to make a few quid and that's fair enough. And just because they put a price tag of £700 on the watch doesn't mean they will achieve it. The market will decide how much more value the better pictures and description are worth.

If your maximum bid was less than £411 then you can't complain it went too cheaply, can you?

Awetaylor · Jan 18, 2021

Engee
For all of its faults eBay is close to what economists describe as a perfect market, not there there can ever be an actual perfect market.

If your maximum bid was less than £411 then you can't complain it went too cheaply, can you?

True, and I think this piece will inevitably go down in price.

Thinking about it, I may also have been spoilt by the private sales on OF. So often people are looking to trade their loved watches at a very reasonable price and to people who they think will appreciate them

Edward53 · Jan 18, 2021

Ebay sales is far from being a level playing field.

I collect other things beside watches. Sometimes I list things on ebay. I might sell object X for £200. Along comes a professional seller and sells the exact same thing for £400. Why am I not surprised? Because my ebay sales are sporadic, whereas this professional sells all the time. Longterm professional sellers get a reputation for having lots of items of a certain type and soon develop a "following". Their items may be what we consider well overpriced, even overpriced crap, but that doesn't matter. Their market is cash-rich, time-poor or just plain lazy buyers. Those people often aren't discriminating and don't want the hassle of going through the whole of ebay, so they just look at certain sellers. The result is increased competition for their items. The fact that their purchase is unsellable for anything like the same money two years down the line is irrelevant to them. Just look at the vintage clothing fad market and you'll see some prime examples of that.

So, if this seller does get £700 for the watch, that's why they can get it and you and I can't. It's a world apart from Private Sales on this forum.

STANDY · Jan 18, 2021

Plenty of long time members can share stories of the ones they missed.

The two things you will need to have a good A game.
Know what your looking at quickly.
Have a watch kitty before you even start looking.

Wlcutter · Jan 18, 2021

Awetaylor
True, and I think this piece will inevitably go down in price.

Thinking about it, I may also have been spoilt by the private sales on OF. So often people are looking to trade their loved watches at a very reasonable price and to people who they think will appreciate them

First, I think you've got to count yourself lucky that you missed the watch if you think its original sale price was a stretch.

Second, it's extremely hard to get a watch at auction on ebay which you can then resell for more; it's not impossible, and many of us have done it, but it requires the object to somehow be not perfectly recognizable (described incorrectly or incompletely, bad pictures, etc). The market is the market; sure, sometimes, some objects go for divergent prices, but in my experience, if an item's described correctly, the price it goes for on ebay is generally correct (look, for example, at sold items of the same reference, and see how big a delta there is in prices). Good dealers are able to sell for more (almost always off of ebay) because they've got a client base; maybe there's some folks who can sell items for 2x what they paid, all on ebay, but I find most but-it-now watch listings are overpriced, and typically the watches languish and eventually sell for far less than the asking price.

YMMV, of course; this is all just what I've seen/experienced.

Engee · Jan 18, 2021

Wlcutter
I find most but-it-now watch listings are overpriced, and typically the watches languish and eventually sell for far less than the asking price.

YMMV, of course; this is all just what I've seen/experienced.

I think BIN is used to effect a kind of Dutch Auction. Start high and gradually reduce price until a buyer is found.

Wlcutter · Jan 18, 2021

Engee
I think BIN is used to effect a kind of Dutch Auction. Start high and gradually reduce price until a buyer is found.

Agreed, and in such circumstances, it probably works well. The watches that get listed with what seem inflated BIN prices almost always don't get bought and eventually have to have their price chopped significantly, and (at least imo) it's telling that several fairly serious dealers *only* list their watches as $.99 auctions, if/when they use ebay.

Flip · Jan 18, 2021

I was looking into another watch recently so did a bit of digging around previous sales including eBay to get an idea of what they’ve been selling for.
It’s a fairly scarce watch but 2 examples sold in recent months so it gave me an idea. I obviously check out other platforms too, one being chrono24 where I found one of the watches for sale that sold on eBay for £750. Now I know how to flip items ( hence the name ) but if this seller gets his asking price then I’ll ask him for his autograph ! It’s a piece of crap which accounts for its low eBay result and it’s now back up for sale for £2,250 ! 🤨
eBay isn’t my favourite place tbh but I do get the impression that auction results on there tend to be a fair guide to market values.

Wlcutter · Jan 18, 2021

Flip
I was looking into another watch recently so did a bit of digging around previous sales including eBay to get an idea of what they’ve been selling for.
It’s a fairly scarce watch but 2 examples sold in recent months so it gave me an idea. I obviously check out other platforms too, one being chrono24 where I found one of the watches for sale that sold on eBay for £750. Now I know how to flip items ( hence the name ) but if this seller gets his asking price then I’ll ask him for his autograph ! It’s a piece of crap which accounts for its low eBay result and it’s now back up for sale for £2,250 ! 🤨
eBay isn’t my favourite place tbh but I do get the impression that auction results on there tend to be a fair guide to market values.

Precisely, yeah: unless you're a dealer, ebay's auctions give a clear guide to reasonable, expectable market prices.

vlaspri · Jan 18, 2021

Gentlemens, I don't know how about you, but every time I make a bid on any watch I'm interested in on eBay I do get overbidded by others. Really EVERYTIME. I had a lot of watches and none of them was bought on eBay auctions, because if a specific timepiece is worthy - it will always find a connoisseur ready to spend some more cash then me.

How do you beat the middlemen/flippers on eBay?

Awetaylor

Darlinboy

connieseamaster

michael e

Awetaylor

Awetaylor

michael e

Awetaylor

kaapstadflaneur

S.H.

Engee

Awetaylor

Edward53

STANDY

Wlcutter

Engee

Wlcutter

Flip

Wlcutter

vlaspri

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