Learn How To Fish

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I’ve posted about straps previously. Recently I saw this stainless steel/gold indices and hands Seamaster 165.003 as a BIN or offer on eBay. I like this version but wasn’t entirely sure it was genuine. I posted the seller’s poor photos on OF seeking reassurance, which I didn’t get.

So, entirely down to me. Two things persuaded me to take a chance. First, the seller also lives in the UK and offered a 14 day return. Second, one of the photos showed the face of what I hoped was an original strap buckle.



So, I made an offer and was right about both the watch and the buckle but, if I hadn’t been, I could have returned it.

Hope this helps.

Edited:
 
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Very great post, with good pictures. A lot great help. To collect vintage watches can be a tricky business
 
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It happened to me a few times as well to buy the "wrong one". Most of the times they uploading faded pictures, or bad quality ones, so its hard to see is either good or bad.
 
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i wish i had read this before buying my first vintage omega (cal 342 bumper gold capped dress watch) which turned out to have a redial as far as I can tell now and is a American imported watch from the 50's which as I understand now were imported as movements to be cased by American made cases for tariff reasons? This is still kind of unclear to me.

In any case, thank you so very much for sharing your expertise.
 
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...........that 100 Meter Sub was my Rolex Submariner. just for future use of this pics. kind regards. achim
That watch is swell.
 
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Thank you so much for taking the time to lay out this very helpful post!
 
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Great post, thanks for the education. I’m on the hunt for something from the 60s for my collection.
 
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Hey everyone! I am brand new in the vintage watch community and I’ve been trying to educate myself as much as possible before making a purchase. I recently found this forum and it has helped me tremendously so I want to thank everyone for the useful info! I came across this seamaster on eBay (ref. 14701 1 sc) and am having some speculation about the 12,6, and 9 hour markers. When I look up the reference # none of them have the elongated markers so I’m thinking they have been replaced. From what little knowledge I have everything else looks original but I could be wrong. Any advice helps. Thanks in advance.
 
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Hey everyone! I am brand new in the vintage watch community and I’ve been trying to educate myself as much as possible before making a purchase. I recently found this forum and it has helped me tremendously so I want to thank everyone for the useful info! I came across this seamaster on eBay (ref. 14701 1 sc) and am having some speculation about the 12,6, and 9 hour markers. When I look up the reference # none of them have the elongated markers so I’m thinking they have been replaced. From what little knowledge I have everything else looks original but I could be wrong. Any advice helps. Thanks in advance.
Welcome! To get the best help, please open a new thread with your relevant question. 😀
 
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What a great thread to help for beginners such as myself to engage in the world of vintage watches. Huge thanks!
 
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https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...0167/lot-a6fbab3d-ee51-4202-92fa-ae070112bf29

Not sure if i should be posting this here, but it looks like something you'd not even want in your Christmas cracker. The dial, the hands, the movement all make me want to cringe. 9a73ae2f-29a0-4edd-aa6f-ae070112bfe9.jpg
 
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@ConElPueblo thanks a lot to share your knowledge with the community.
We could find possible defects and identify competences and loyalty about the sellers.
😀
 
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2.1. You may love patina, but for a lot of people it is still damage/decay so unless it's a special case, a patinated dial will lower the value of a given watch. As this subject is very, eh, subjective and a case of what one finds attractive take these points as mere guidelines.

Patina should be even on a dial. No matter if it's light spotting or the orangey-brown film of tobacco smoke residue from a long period of exposure to that particular element, you do not want random blotches on the dial, but instead an even spread. If the dial damage in question is pronounced at 3 o’clock on the dial there’s a good chance that the cause of the damage is a leakage around the crown, letting in moisture to the case.


Two cases of heavy dial patina, probably from tobacco smoke exposure*. Note that the bottom one is next to a very similarly dialled Seamaster that's also patinated, in this case more light and mostly in the middle of the dial:


(yes, they both were the same light colour to begin with!)

As "patina" could just as well be called "damage", this raises another issue - how about the movement? If you find a heavily patinated watch to your liking, you must inspect the movement. Chances are that whatever caused the damage on the dial side has affected the movement too. Funnily enough, the word “patina” is rarely used on damage below deck...


In the case of black dials, there are several ways for these to age. Have a look in the "Vintage Black Dials Only!" thread, where I have found some of the following examples:


Black fading to grey:


Link


Link

In both cases the black colour is slowly losing its lustre and turning slightly grey. The text changes too and will, typically end up like the "Seamaster" text on the upper model and be hard to read.

Just like this:


Link

A pretty common variety of patina on a black dial is the "gold speck" dial, or the "starry night", where a number of golden stars dot the dial:


Link

This is due to the way the dial is produced: a layer of black paint is added to the brass dial, letting the brass appear where there is text. Eventually, the paint starts to flake and the brass peeks through. Simple.


Probably the most widely liked type of patination of a dial are of the "chocolate" or "tropical" variety. It is my understanding that to begin with, the "tropic" moniker would only be used on a black dial turned lighter brown, but now I seem to see it all over the place. Oh well. As mentioned, patina is a subjective thing and you'll have to make up your own mind whether or not you like it, and if you like it enough to pay a premium over a ordinary specimen. Most brown dials are due to paint defects and the effect of UV and/or moisture ingress.


Link


Link

Quite a few blue dials - often those with a metallic finish - have also been known to change appearances. Here's a member's Omega Seamaster 176.007, which was a striking electric blue when it was new:


Link

The reason why I've focussed so much on black dials is that when these 50's and 60's watches were new, black dials weren't in vogue for a number of reasons. Black dial Constellations, apparently, were even a special order item. This means that there are many fewer of them - and due to the popularity of today, redialers will often paint their creations black! So if you are assessing a piece online and the black dial looks too good to be true (most have deterioated to some extent), then it most likely is. Tread very carefully.


*EDIT: I have now, some time after writing this post, come to the conclusion that correlating this particular type of dial aging with tobacco smoke ingress is probably false. It seems to be more likely to be a manufacturing defect in the lacquer, seeing that it often occurs in the same references and isn't spread evenly across several different refs.
Thank you for this,
I still don’t trust myself buying vintage, I just don’t know enough
 
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Thank you for this,
I still don’t trust myself buying vintage, I just don’t know enough

Have a long look in the depths of the Vintage Omega Watches subforum and read those threads that concern the models you really like and get a feeling of what to look for in the specific references. Some information may be a bit dated, but the groundworks are there 😀