Learn How To Fish

ConElPueblo

On the subject of luminous markers and hands it is worth spending at least a little time getting familiar with the watch you’re after before making a final verdict on whether or not a specimen is completely original. You’ll want a watch that looks good. Period. Having a vintage watch with wrongly redone or badly degraded lume will seriously detract from the overall appearance of a watch and should have a massive effect on price.


Very, very lovely, even patina on the radium markers and hands on this forties JLC.


Types of luminous compound:


There have been a number of different types of luminous materials used on watches during the last hundred or so years. The earliest type has an amount of added radium as a catalyst for the luminous material in the mix (it is not the radium itself that is luminous, it is the phosphor) and these will invariably be “dead” and not able to produce any sort of glow anymore. That doesn’t mean that it won’t be radioactive anymore; radium has a half-life of 1600 years – but the phosphor has degraded to the point that it isn’t able to glow. Radium was used as a catalyst in this way until the early 60s and will usually degrade into a very dark colour or go brown, as opposed to the watches that contain tritium – the replacement for radium – which tend to turn a yellow-beige colour instead. If you expose a dial with radium plots, be extremely cautious as you do not want this stuff in your body.

Mid-forties LeCoultre with radium in both hands and on arabic markers. Note how they have aged differently compared to the lovely Jaeger-LeCoultre in the beginning of the post!


Tritium, as mentioned, turn a more yellow colour and was used from the early sixties until the turn of the century, where it was replaced by other materials by most brands. At Omega the replacement was Super-Luminova, which doesn’t patinate in the same manner as the two other substances (at least, not yet…). Note that tritium has a half-life of 12.5 years, so watches with tritium will have little glow by now while Super-Luminova isn’t radioactive.


Lovely patina on tritium markers and hands (FS here).


The two major parameters are aesthetics and originality:

As that lovely patinated colour we are looking for in a watch comes with a slow degradation of the luminous compound, what you’ll want is a watch that hasn’t had any moisture ingress, as that can give the lume a blotchy appearance, darken it unattractively or destroy the compound and remove it from the dial. Radium, as mentioned, is highly radioactive and a watch with radium in it’s luminous hands that has stood still for a long period can suffer from “radium burn” where there are clear shadows on the dial at the position where the hands have stood immobile in years. Other dials can suffer from a complete radium burn, which is often characterised by being most obvious where the markers are. Neither of these are necessarily a bad thing – they can be a proof of originality and also look quite attractive as well as being a great conversation starter 😉


Radium burn on Rolex dial... link.


On tritium dials there shouldn’t be any burn, but another characteristic should be present – the added “T” next to the SWISS MADE. Now, I’ll come forward and admit that I have little clue as to why there are dials with two Ts and others with only a single one, but the heart of the matter is that it should be present on watches from around 1960 and forward to the change to Super-Luminova. Note, however, that in a short period in the 70’s (and perhaps as early as late 60’s), a number of Omega references with luminous dial plots and hands do not feature the “T”! I do not know the exact reason, but it could be due to experimentation with other materials, I guess. A large number of redials have the “T” moniker after SWISS MADE even when not having lume anywhere, making it a pretty good tell when spotting redials.

Correct Omega Constellation ref. 168.0056. Notice how the hands have aged differently from the hour markers and how the "T" is missing - this is normal for this 70's reference.


Some redialers or relumers will make an effort and mix up a compound looking just like aged lume and the results can be spectacular. In general there are some tells for this, ranging from sloppy application to too neat (!) application and either too small lume plot or too large… Also, having 100% identically aged lume on all hands and dial plots will look great on any old watch, but it could just as well be due to a thorough relume. There are no guarantee that a watch will have hands and lume markers that have aged the same way – there are simply too many variables.


A good thing to be aware of is that all Omegas that features luminous hands should also have luminous plots on the dial! So when accessing a watch, make sure that the hands fit the dial in this manner (there are other points regarding the hands, I’ll cover some of these later). This one below used to belong to me and feature incorrect hands (of the correct type, however) as they contain luminous compound without having luminous markers – observe how the lume in the hour hand have degraded from a yellow colour at the end to a near black tone towards the base of the hand; there has probably been some sort of moisture ingress.

The correct shape of hands for this reference, but without luminous material on the dial there shouldn't be any in the hands, either.


The above should tell you that a vintage watch with white (or light green, even!) lume have been relumed at some point. Many watches have been relumed at some point, after all they are tools first and foremost and having this done as a part of a service makes good sense. Still, as collectors we’d like it better if it hasn’t 😉

Relumed hour hand - compare with the radium lume dots at 3 and 6, which have turned brown.



Some watches (most notably issued ones) will have been relumed as a standard part of any service and in this case a relume isn’t the
same detractor as with a civilian watch, even though the application is rather lumpy and crude.


Notice how thickly the lume has been applied. This particular specimen has aged very nicely.


I hope this cleared up some points, even though I realise that it may have muddied the waters in some regards. You’ll have to remember that there are no rules without exceptions when dealing with vintage watches. Do some research on the type of watch you are looking at before and figure out which rules applies to the watch in question. Then make a qualified decision.

ConElPueblo

On the subject of luminous markers and hands it is worth spending at least a little time getting familiar with the watch you’re after before making a final verdict on whether or not a specimen is completely original. You’ll want a watch that looks good. Period. Having a vintage watch with wrongly redone or badly degraded lume will seriously detract from the overall appearance of a watch and should have a massive effect on price.


Very, very lovely, even patina on the radium markers and hands on this forties JLC.


Types of luminous compound:


There have been a number of different types of luminous materials used on watches during the last hundred or so years. The earliest type has an amount of added radium as a catalyst for the luminous material in the mix (it is not the radium itself that is luminous, it is the phosphor) and these will invariably be “dead” and not able to produce any sort of glow anymore. That doesn’t mean that it won’t be radioactive anymore; radium has a half-life of 1600 years – but the phosphor has degraded to the point that it isn’t able to glow. Radium was used as a catalyst in this way until the early 60s and will usually degrade into a very dark colour or go brown, as opposed to the watches that contain tritium – the replacement for radium – which tend to turn a yellow-beige colour instead. If you expose a dial with radium plots, be extremely cautious as you do not want this stuff in your body.

Mid-forties LeCoultre with radium in both hands and on arabic markers. Note how they have aged differently compared to the lovely Jaeger-LeCoultre in the beginning of the post!


Tritium, as mentioned, turn a more yellow colour and was used from the early sixties until the turn of the century, where it was replaced by other materials by most brands. At Omega the replacement was Super-Luminova, which doesn’t patinate in the same manner as the two other substances (at least, not yet…). Note that tritium has a half-life of 12.5 years, so watches with tritium will have little glow by now while Super-Luminova isn’t radioactive.


Lovely patina on tritium markers and hands (FS here).


The two major parameters are aesthetics and originality:

As that lovely patinated colour we are looking for in a watch comes with a slow degradation of the luminous compound, what you’ll want is a watch that hasn’t had any moisture ingress, as that can give the lume a blotchy appearance, darken it unattractively or destroy the compound and remove it from the dial. Radium, as mentioned, is highly radioactive and a watch with radium in it’s luminous hands that has stood still for a long period can suffer from “radium burn” where there are clear shadows on the dial at the position where the hands have stood immobile in years. Other dials can suffer from a complete radium burn, which is often characterised by being most obvious where the markers are. Neither of these are necessarily a bad thing – they can be a proof of originality and also look quite attractive as well as being a great conversation starter 😉


Radium burn on Rolex dial... link.


On tritium dials there shouldn’t be any burn, but another characteristic should be present – the added “T” next to the SWISS MADE. Now, I’ll come forward and admit that I have little clue as to why there are dials with two Ts and others with only a single one, but the heart of the matter is that it should be present on watches from around 1960 and forward to the change to Super-Luminova. Note, however, that in a short period in the 70’s (and perhaps as early as late 60’s), a number of Omega references with luminous dial plots and hands do not feature the “T”! I do not know the exact reason, but it could be due to experimentation with other materials, I guess. A large number of redials have the “T” moniker after SWISS MADE even when not having lume anywhere, making it a pretty good tell when spotting redials.

Correct Omega Constellation ref. 168.0056. Notice how the hands have aged differently from the hour markers and how the "T" is missing - this is normal for this 70's reference.


Some redialers or relumers will make an effort and mix up a compound looking just like aged lume and the results can be spectacular. In general there are some tells for this, ranging from sloppy application to too neat (!) application and either too small lume plot or too large… Also, having 100% identically aged lume on all hands and dial plots will look great on any old watch, but it could just as well be due to a thorough relume. There are no guarantee that a watch will have hands and lume markers that have aged the same way – there are simply too many variables.


A good thing to be aware of is that all Omegas that features luminous hands should also have luminous plots on the dial! So when accessing a watch, make sure that the hands fit the dial in this manner (there are other points regarding the hands, I’ll cover some of these later). This one below used to belong to me and feature incorrect hands (of the correct type, however) as they contain luminous compound without having luminous markers – observe how the lume in the hour hand have degraded from a yellow colour at the end to a near black tone towards the base of the hand; there has probably been some sort of moisture ingress.

The correct shape of hands for this reference, but without luminous material on the dial there shouldn't be any in the hands, either.


The above should tell you that a vintage watch with white (or light green, even!) lume have been relumed at some point. Many watches have been relumed at some point, after all they are tools first and foremost and having this done as a part of a service makes good sense. Still, as collectors we’d like it better if it hasn’t 😉

Relumed hour hand - compare with the radium lume dots at 3 and 6, which have turned brown.



Some watches (most notably issued ones) will have been relumed as a standard part of any service and in this case a relume isn’t the
same detractor as with a civilian watch, even though the application is rather lumpy and crude.


Notice how thickly the lume has been applied. This particular specimen has aged very nicely.


I hope this cleared up some points, even though I realise that it may have muddied the waters in some regards. You’ll have to remember that there are no rules without exceptions when dealing with vintage watches. Do some research on the type of watch you are looking at before and figure out which rules applies to the watch in question. Then make a qualified decision.

Mr Vo

Is this dial burned by radium on the minute and hour hands when left inactive for a long time at 3 o'clock 7 minutes?

SkunkPrince

Maybe. Need to see a couple of other angles. But yeah, more likely than not.

Mr Vo

Thanks, what angle do you need to see? I will try to clearly zoom it...

SkunkPrince

30 degrees up from the plane of the dial.

SkunkPrince

Well, considering none of these are "30 degrees up from the plane of the dial"....

SkunkPrince

Like this.

SkunkPrince

Hm, hard to say. Really hard to say. The lume in the hands and the numbers do not match. That stuff on the dial looks like it came off of the hands, not that it was caused by burning. It also appears the same stuff got picked up by the second hand and smeared across the top of the sunken seconds track.

I don't know where you are (can you share?) but it seems to me that a relume expert might be able to get the gunk off the dial and then relume your hands in the same color as the numbers.

Let's see what the others say.

But I am reasonably sure that's not radium burn.