Alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE

dsio · Apr 2, 2017

I'm sorry, but no... There isn't a licensing deal here because Peanuts do not own the rights to Snoopy the Astronaut, NASA does. The author of Peanuts was a diehard space fan and when NASA wanted to use Snoopy in the silver Snoopy award he agreed to let NASA use the Snoopy the Astronaut at zero cost as he loved the idea of being a part of it.

The likelihood of that many people being a Peanuts fan and wanting to spend that sort of money on a watch just because they like Snoopy is just nuts (pardon the pun).

speedolex · Apr 2, 2017

Foo2rama
You sir are actually wrong on this. Little to no crossover with the comics. Your statement about this shows you don't understand the market for LE Speedies. If anything the crossover is with NASA collectors due to the Snoopy Award. Irregardless the ST sold out in less then 4 hours with a huge number of people on the waiting list. That alone shows demand far and above the Snoopy. It's not going to drop anytime soon.

Your opinion of what looks good is not universal, they are your opinions, others are different. In the world of Speedy Collectors, they have spoken the ST is a huge homage to collectors, and they love the look. Stop telling everyone they are wrong if they like it, or have a different opinion then you.

If you want to keep talking in absolutes and dismissing proven opinions of long time members with zero facts, things will start to go poorly for you in terms of people's opinion of you. If anything your already taking pages directly out of the Troll Handbook.

For the ST, let's talk honestly, you shouldn't use words like "sold out" as no money has been transacted. 2,012 people, mostly from forums and Instragram, simply made a reservation in the heat of the moment when the piece dropped. It will be interesting to see what happens when the call comes for cash. As a point of reference, the Omega Boutique nearest my office was adamant I couldn't reserve the 60th Anniversary LE without a 100% deposit the first week, by the second week they said they'd take as little as 30%, I could pick a number I liked, and I could cancel if I went to the shop and didn't like what I saw. That's reality.

On the Snoopy, I have a wee bit of marketing and licensing experience and I fully understand Omega's strategy, you may want to rethink who is right and who is wrong here. Just because it doesn't match your preconceived notion that everything Omega does is designed for you. It's actually not. Omega is running the Marketing 101 textbook, trying to find products that address specific marketing segments alienated by their core business. In board meeting, someone said "how do we coax vintage buyers to get into our boutiques?" and the series of vintage homages was born, the 57, the FOIS, the 60th CK2915, they come almost annually, it's like clockwork now. And then someone said "how do we get NASA fans into our boutiques?" and all the various moon editions were born, too many to list here. Eventually, someone said "how do we get a licensing opportunity for our boutiques?" and Charles Shulz Peanuts and Snoopy were a perfect fit.

Show me where I am "telling everyone they are wrong if they like" a certain watch. If you perceive my posts in that manner, nothing I can do about it, I never said anything of the sort. If you don't like my posting style, please stop reading my posts.

MCG555 · Apr 2, 2017

speedolex

No, but I'd venture to guess that at least 20-30% of all Speedmaster Snoopy's sold went to Peanuts aficionado's. I don't think the millions of people who bought Mickey Mouse watches were Ingersoll fans.

I know a thing or two about marketing and licensing. The licensing deal, the publicity that followed, the window displays (above), you need to understand that Omega is trying to drive incremental bodies into their boutiques and their authorized dealerships. That's the reason for these LE's. So if you bought one because of your love of the space program, that's cool. But understand there are an even greater amount of Peanuts fans out there and they were driven to the Silver Snoopy too.

Sorry to say so - this is bullshit!
Mickey Mouse fans can be the same target group as Ingersoll watch buyers (that cost 100$)
But the same audience (and it doesn't make a big difference - Snoopy or Mickey Mouse) will crtainly very unlikely buy a 7k$ watch...

speedolex · Apr 2, 2017

jv91
lol ok yea, the person who outfits their bathroom in peanuts gear is NOT going to drop $10k + on a watch

6a00d8341c2f0953ef019b01c9e872970d-800wi

I was being a bit dramatic with the bathroom, but you should see the Hong Kong millionaire's wives in their Hello Kitty necklaces and bracelets, I do when I'm over there. That Snoopy beaded dress probably costs over $1000, you should see what upscale merchandise they sell in Disney stores in LA and FL.

jv91 · Apr 2, 2017

and there's maybe what, ten people in the world with a snoopy obsession so large and have the means to purchase the LE? that does not dictate the price

speedolex · Apr 2, 2017

MCG555
Sorry to say so - this is bullshit!
Mickey Mouse fans can be the same target group as Ingersoll watch buyers (that cost 100$)
But the same audience (and it doesn't make a big difference - Snoopy or Mickey Mouse) will crtainly very unlikely buy a 7k$ watch...

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-oyster-date-mickey-mouse-watch-available-on-james-list/

Foo2rama · Apr 2, 2017

Mickey Mouse watches and the Snoopy Award watches (both versions) are not an apples to apples comparison. Yes edge cases exist but that does not prove a norm. Yet another troll tactic...

Disney markets like the Rolex markets exist outside their competitors in vintage markets. This has been proven over and over. Both those categories do not behave like other brands.

If you knew the market and saw bidding histories and sale prices on eBay you would have a pretty good idea you are wrong on the Snoopies.

The fact that people that have been immersed is the Speedy market for years are telling you that you are wrong, and you refuse to yield and have zero credibility so far just shows trolling behavior.

You also proved my point with your argument about the Daytonas in regards to limited stock and price behavior and how it would affect the ST.

I don't like the Snoopy editions but I know enough that my personal biases cannot effect my thoughts on the market. Take your personal biases out of it and look and trends over the past 5-10 years. Stop taking narrow black and white views that show a lack of nuance and understanding of the market.

sensui · Apr 2, 2017

Hah... I've shown my Snoopy Speedy to a lot of people at the Snoopy museum event in Tokyo last year... Not one knew of the watch's existence.

speedolex · Apr 2, 2017

Foo2rama
Mickey Mouse watches and the Snoopy Award watches (both versions) are not an apples to apples comparison. Yes edge cases exist but that does not prove a norm. Yet another troll tactic...

Disney markets like the Rolex markets exist outside their competitors in vintage markets. This has been proven over and over. Both those categories do not behave like other brands.

If you knew the market and saw bidding histories and sale prices on eBay you would have a pretty good idea you are wrong on the Snoopies.

The fact that people that have been immersed is the Speedy market for years are telling you that you are wrong, and you refuse to yield and have zero credibility so far just shows trolling behavior.

You also proved my point with your argument about the Daytonas in regards to limited stock and price behavior and how it would affect the ST.

I don't like the Snoopy editions but I know enough that my personal biases cannot effect my thoughts on the market. Take your personal biases out of it and look and trends over the past 5-10 years. Stop taking narrow black and white views that show a lack of nuance and understanding of the market.

How is a Rolex with Mickey Mouse on it any different than an Omega with a Snoopy on it? Will there be some who buy the Rolex because they are Mickey Mouse fans? Definitely. Will there be some who buy the Omega because they are Peanuts fans? Definitely. It's the entire point of licensing, to attract someone to your brand because they are fans of another brand. Omega has a bit of influence towards the NASA aficionado because of it's Apollo connection which Rolex lacks. But Omega didn't put big pictures of a lunar module in their boutique windows; they put a big ol' Snoopy dog.

As for eBay, how do you know who is buying one because they are Omega fans, NASA fans, or Peanuts fans? Have you personally sold a dozen Snoopy Speedmasters to various consumers and can verify that none of them bought it because they like Snoopy the character instead of because they like Snoopy the NASA safety mascot?

As for credibility, what's yours? Discussion forums are for discussion, not personal attacks. Cut it out.

dsio · Apr 2, 2017

speedolex
How is a Rolex with Mickey Mouse on it any different than an Omega with a Snoopy on it? Will there be some who buy the Rolex because they are Mickey Mouse fans? Definitely. Will there be some who buy the Omega because they are Peanuts fans? Definitely. It's the entire point of licensing, to attract someone to your brand because they are fans of another brand. Omega has a bit of influence towards the NASA aficionado because of it's Apollo connection which Rolex lacks. But Omega didn't put big pictures of a lunar module in their boutique windows; they put a big ol' Snoopy dog.

As for eBay, how do you know who is buying one because they are Omega fans, NASA fans, or Peanuts fans? Have you personally sold a dozen Snoopy Speedmasters to various consumers and can verify that none of them bought it because they like Snoopy the character instead of because they like Snoopy the NASA safety mascot?

As for credibility, what's yours? Discussion forums are for discussion, not personal attacks. Cut it out.

You're still confusing two very different things here, the Snoopy is not a Snoopy watch... it just happens to have Snoopy on it. It also doesn't involve Peanuts. You've completely misunderstood what that watch actually is and what its about entirely, you're talking about something that isn't relevant to the watch even slightly.

dsio · Apr 2, 2017

Just to elaborate... this is why the Snoopy is valuable:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/rar...5th-anniversary-patch-3595-52-full-set.45049/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...-ref-3578-51-00-speedmaster-circa-2003.54834/

The original Apollo 13 LE is near unobtainium, they only made 999 in that production run and they sold out, and now sell for many times what they were originally worth even in used and worn condition.

The second LE was the 2003 Snoopy which there were many more made of, 5441 to be exact, so quite a large production run. In spite of this these watches are extremely sought after, due to them being a successor to the original Apollo 13 LE. They now sell for a huge premium over their original price due to demand.

The third LE was the Silver caseback Snoopy, and that was the third Apollo 13 LE, after the 5441 sold out you'd think they'd go high again but they went low, only around 2k units and they were slow to be made and demand was extremely high.

Those are the only three wide volume production runs of Apollo 13 watches, by contrast there are many, many Apollo 11 LE releases but that and the Apollo 13 are the two missions that matter most to space enthusiasts. The 13 tends to matter even more so however due to the Speedmaster actually being used on that mission in a critical capacity, which lead to the Silver Snoopy award being issued to Omega.

Once again, it isn't a branding exercise with Peanuts, Snoopy is only there as a reference to what happened on Apollo 13 and the role the Speedmaster played in it, NASA owns the rights to the silver snoopy design at the consent of the Peanuts creator.

This is why there is demand, the whole circular mickey mouse thing is just nonsense.

Foo2rama · Apr 2, 2017

@speedolex I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out how your coming across.Please show me an personal attack, and if I made one I apologize.

I never said a Rolex with Disney. My point was the Rolex market functions differently from other Watch brands and is somewhat decoupled from the vintage watch market. Just like Disney branded stuff functions very differently from other brands. Both markets have large populations of collectors that would not go for other brands. Basically the population of brand collectors is significantly higher then item collectors vs other brands, which is not as true with other brands. Example... Rolex forums have high percentages of Rolex only collectors while this forum has basically no Omega only collectors.

Also for the 3rd time in this thread the Snoopy was not Licensed, and has little to do with the Snoopy brand. If you understood the history of the award you would understand that. You would also have seen how who has been buying and asking about this watch on this forum and others.

The ST, regardless of the Fratello connection still has large value to speedy collectors. All of the features on the watch are a love letter to collectors. The radial subdials are a take it or leave it feature I will admit, but they have solid historical meaning as well as a firm nod to Fratello and their connection with that rare subtype. Every feature on the ST was well thought out, and the level of detail to collectors is high. From the font choice on the dial, the return of the applied logo, the brushing choice on the watch and a few other features are all things that would insure it would sell out quickly even if it was not called the Speedy Tuesday. Sure the social media launch didn't hurt how fast it sold out, but I can assure you that this watch would have sold out just as fast if not faster then any other recent Speedy LE. The online reservation system love it or hate it, was more efficient then the normal AD/OB system which left it up in the air as to how many would go to each retailer, which has a tendency to slow down how fast something sells out.

Traveler · Apr 2, 2017

Aaaanywho.... my complete inability to snag an ST reservation drove me on a reverse panda hunt, which I happen to be wearing now...

abrod520 · Apr 2, 2017

speedolex
How is a Rolex with Mickey Mouse on it any different than an Omega with a Snoopy on it?

Rolex never won a Mickey Mouse Award from being voted on by astronauts who used them in the course of safely returning to Earth after a major disaster.

For someone whose time on this forum seems solely dedicated to putting down LE Speedmasters you sure don't know much about them

Riviera Paradise · Apr 2, 2017

Technically not really an alternative to the ST (panda vs reverse panda), the Jack Heuer designed Autavia special edition does look quite sweet. I'm certainly think it would make a good pair with the ST, and for those not able to purchase a ST in the short term, it might quench the first for a sports chronograph with heritage history and a panda / reverse panda dial.

Compared below with Nima's post of the ST on a SS bracelet...

Bushido · Apr 2, 2017

I don't think there are any really great "alternatives" to the ST if you're a Speedmaster fan. There are a couple TH designs which can come close and are certainly great looking but do not quite match up aesthetically. The closest I've been able to come up with is AP's new re-issue of their RO chrono line.
Specifically:

However, now we're talking about a huge leap up in price point to $24.3K USD for this particular version. I think this one and the Orca dial are very attractive watches. That's one hell of a jump in cost if what one is after is more the aesthetics of the dial.

Ergo, I think the ST is a truly unique time piece. That's why it has garnered such a rabid and passionate following. I know I am chomping at the bit and hoping I get moved from the wait list to having the ability to reserve, purchase, and enjoy.

imagwai · Apr 2, 2017

Omega Speedmaster Reduced 3510.52 - but could be harder to find than a ST!

Bienne2998 · Apr 2, 2017

I would like to focus on the initial question: Alternatives to ST LE

To make it clear. I really like the ST and I am very happy to be able to collect one at the local OB in july (or august...). But I think there are some really cool alternatives if you have some time to hunt:

Let me begin with the one on the left:

Zenith A277

Why is it an Alternative:
- Reverse Panda dial
- Applied Logo (well it's a star and not greek letter)
- Bezel (they can often be found with faded "ghost bezels" - something Speedy lovers love
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Very cool movement: Zenith 146 (a column wheel movement just like the Omega 321)
- Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

Next one
Navitimer 806

Why is it an Alternative:
- Reverse Panda dial
- White bezel with a lot of numbers to make calculations
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Cool movement: Venus 178 (a column wheel movement just like the Omega 321)
- Often nice faded Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

and last but not least - a Speedy

Speedmaster 145.022-69

Why is it an Alternative:
- Well, it is a Speedy after all
- It's from the legendary year 1969 (moon landing)
- Cool bezel (some 69 come with the 220-bezel - very limited edition!!! and even without a big premium (that does not apply for DON-69's)
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Cool movement: Cal 861
- Often nice faded Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

Group shot

...and the cool things are:

...they look fantastic on your wrist
...they are all the real thing (vintage)
...they are all limited (...out of production)

and they all can be found (with a little patience) for the same amount as you need to collect the ST LE at the boutique....

Cad290 · Apr 2, 2017

Bienne2998
I would like to focus on the initial question: Alternatives to ST LE

To make it clear. I really like the ST and I am very happy to be able to collect one at the local OB in july (or august...). But I think there are some really cool alternatives if you have some time to hunt:

Let me begin with the one on the left:

Zenith A277

Why is it an Alternative:
- Reverse Panda dial
- Applied Logo (well it's a star and not greek letter)
- Bezel (they can often be found with faded "ghost bezels" - something Speedy lovers love
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Very cool movement: Zenith 146 (a column wheel movement just like the Omega 321)
- Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

Next one
Navitimer 806

Why is it an Alternative:
- Reverse Panda dial
- White bezel with a lot of numbers to make calculations
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Cool movement: Venus 178 (a column wheel movement just like the Omega 321)
- Often nice faded Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

and last but not least - a Speedy

Speedmaster 145.022-69

Why is it an Alternative:
- Well, it is a Speedy after all
- It's from the legendary year 1969 (moon landing)
- Cool bezel (some 69 come with the 220-bezel - very limited edition!!! and even without a big premium (that does not apply for DON-69's)
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Cool movement: Cal 861
- Often nice faded Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them

Group shot

...and the cool things are:

...they look fantastic on your wrist
...they are all the real thing (vintage)
...they are all limited (...out of production)

and they all can be found (with a little patience) for the same amount as you need to collect the ST LE at the boutique....

Great post! That zenith is a real beauty! And it answers what the OP was hoping for...

kurtj29 · Apr 2, 2017

I caught "panda fever" bad about this time last year. I really wanted the reverse panda - so I got the Speedmaster 3507.51 I posted about earlier. But may I suggest another entry in the "panda" genre. Once I discovered the Zenith El Primero tri-color panda I had never seen something so beautiful (my opinion). I had to have it. I sold off my Rolex Polar Explorer II. The great thing is that you can easily find these for under $5K. They contain probably one of the most significant movements in horology - the high beat 5hz El Primero movement one of the first (of three) and only original still in production automatic chronographs. I probably will never sell it. For me (and probably only me) this is the ultimate panda. (Also I was able to snag the LE Striking 10th - measures to a 1/10th of a second.)

Alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE

dsio

speedolex

MCG555

speedolex

jv91

speedolex

Foo2rama

sensui

speedolex

dsio

dsio

Foo2rama

Traveler

abrod520

Riviera Paradise

Bushido

imagwai

Bienne2998

Cad290

kurtj29

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