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Alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE
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R3D9
·I would like to focus on the initial question: Alternatives to ST LE
To make it clear. I really like the ST and I am very happy to be able to collect one at the local OB in july (or august...). But I think there are some really cool alternatives if you have some time to hunt:
Let me begin with the one on the left:
Zenith A277
Why is it an Alternative:
- Reverse Panda dial
- Applied Logo (well it's a star and not greek letter)
- Bezel (they can often be found with faded "ghost bezels" - something Speedy lovers love
- Hesalite glass - as all Speedy lovers like
- Very cool movement: Zenith 146 (a column wheel movement just like the Omega 321)
- Tritium lume (no fake lume..;-)
- Size of approx. 42 mm - just like Speedy lovers like them
Oooooh, that Zenith is awesome! Definitely adding it to my list of contenders.
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R3D9
·I caught "panda fever" bad about this time last year. I really wanted the reverse panda - so I got the Speedmaster 3507.51 I posted about earlier. But may I suggest another entry in the "panda" genre. Once I discovered the Zenith El Primero tri-color panda I had never seen something so beautiful (my opinion). I had to have it. I sold off my Rolex Polar Explorer II. The great thing is that you can easily find these for under $5K. They contain probably one of the most significant movements in horology - the high beat 5hz El Primero movement one of the first (of three) and only original still in production automatich chronographs. I probably will never sell it. For me (and probably only me) this is the ultimate panda. (Also I was able to snag the LE Striking 10th - measures to a 1/10th of a second.)
I'm a big fan of this reference of the El Primero and I've had a chance to try it on and loved it immediately. I wouldn't consider it a direct substitute for the ST, because the dial isn't monochromatic, but it is definitely on the list of watches I'd like to acquire some day.
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Mouse_at_Large
·Just type in "reverse panda chronograph" into Google and do an image search. Dozens of variations/manufacturers exist. Spend hours going down rabbit holes and researching then choose your favourite(s).
Simple 😜
Simple 😜
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chows99
·
No, but I'd venture to guess that at least 20-30% of all Speedmaster Snoopy's sold went to Peanuts aficionado's. I don't think the millions of people who bought Mickey Mouse watches were Ingersoll fans.
I know a thing or two about marketing and licensing. The licensing deal, the publicity that followed, the window displays (above), you need to understand that Omega is trying to drive incremental bodies into their boutiques and their authorized dealerships. That's the reason for these LE's. So if you bought one because of your love of the space program, that's cool. But understand there are an even greater amount of Peanuts fans out there and they were driven to the Silver Snoopy too.
This is a very poor analogy. If a snoopy fan want to get merchandise, there are much more affordable alternatives out there beside a Speedy Snoopy, unless he himself is a Omega Fan too.
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speedolex
·This is a very poor analogy. If a snoopy fan want to get merchandise, there are much more affordable alternatives out there beside a Speedy Snoopy, unless he himself is a Omega Fan too.
It's not a poor analogy, perhaps you don't realize how many Peanuts fans there are out there (millions) and now many of them buy licensed product with Snoopy on it (millions). To make an assumption, as many of you have, that a) no wealthy people would buy a quality Snoopy watch, b) there aren't any wealthy Peanuts fans, and c) everyone in the entire world knows that Snoopy was the official mascot of 45 year old space mission is absurd.
When Omega puts images of Snoopy in the windows of their boutiques and authorized dealers, they're not trying to attract hardcore NASA fans; they are also trying to attract hardcore Peanuts fans. I'm not sure why this is so controversial. It's Marketing 101. By no means am I trying to make a case that the Silver Snoopy is some immature or silly watch. It's quite attractive. But to not recognize this is a licensed product designed in part to get someone who likes Charles Shulz Peanuts characters to consider an Omega product as they glide through the mall to purchase a Coach handbag is ludicrous.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerWhen Omega puts images of Snoopy in the windows of their boutiques and authorized dealers, they're not trying to attract hardcore NASA fans; they are also trying to attract hardcore Peanuts fans. I'm not sure why this is so controversial.
Omega is trying to sell watches to whoever they can, and I don't believe they care much about what that person is a fan of. But the argument you are making here now, is quite different from what you started out saying...
"demand for the Snoopy Speedmaster is as much driven by people who own Linus toilet paper and Charlie Brown towels in their Peanuts-themed bathrooms as it is from Omega aficionados."
You have implied, without proof that demand is being driven "as much" by cartoon fans as by Omega fans. As much = 50-50 split. You have a lot of theories and feelings about this, and say it's all marketing 101, but what you don't have is proof. If you had spoken to the marketing team at Omega and could say you received the information directly from them, or had market research to suggest that the Silver Snoopy is being sought after and purchased "as much" by cartoon fans as by Omega fans, then you might have some credibility on this subject...it's clear you don't though.
I think what is controversial is you stating your opinions as cold, hard facts that no one else seems to "get" but you. If you take some time to look around here and get familiar with the "culture" of this forum, you might understand that this kind of thing doesn't usually fly very well here.
By no means am I trying to make a case that the Silver Snoopy is some immature or silly watch.
Okay...
it would have simply been yet another colored dial on a watch that's seen it all, from pictures of Mars to drawings of Snoopy, quite gimmicky.
You can talk to me until the cows come home about panda dials, dials with little pictures of Mars on them, silly cartoon dials with Charlie Brown's dog on it, that's nothing special, that's the same ol' Speedmaster we've known since 1965 with a fresh coat of paint or a decal. And for purists, that's blasphemy. I wouldn't be caught dead with one of those.
A "purist" views the Speedmaster as a piece of living NASA history and the watch worn should be what the astronauts themselves wore, not some lame attempt at an Ingersoll Mickey Mouse watch with Charlie Brown's dog on it.
🤨
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speedolex
·Omega is trying to sell watches to whoever they can, and I don't believe they care much about what that person is a fan of. But the argument you are making here now, is quite different from what you started out saying...
"demand for the Snoopy Speedmaster is as much driven by people who own Linus toilet paper and Charlie Brown towels in their Peanuts-themed bathrooms as it is from Omega aficionados."
You have implied, without proof that demand is being driven "as much" by cartoon fans as by Omega fans. As much = 50-50 split. You have a lot of theories and feelings about this, and say it's all marketing 101, but what you don't have is proof. If you had spoken to the marketing team at Omega and could say you received the information directly from them, or had market research to suggest that the Silver Snoopy is being sought after and purchased "as much" by cartoon fans as by Omega fans, then you might have some credibility on this subject...it's clear you don't though.
I think what is controversial is you stating your opinions as cold, hard facts that no one else seems to "get" but you. If you take some time to look around here and get familiar with the "culture" of this forum, you might understand that this kind of thing doesn't usually fly very well here.
If you want to get "proof" to prove me wrong, please feel free. We're just watch fans here, I'm not aware that any of us work for Omega or can provide definitive answers to any question relative to purchase motivation. The point of discussion forums is to discuss. If everything were factual and nothing was emotional, theoretical, or up for debate we wouldn't be here.
When a luxury brand associates itself with another brand it does so to sell product. Omega through it was worthy to plaster their storefronts with Snoopy imagery when the Silver was released and that wasn't only to attract hardcore NASA fans. You should take that clear message as directional, answers your questions of Omega's intent and whether or not my argument is of merit.
Back to the OP's original question, I believe that the ST will be readily available upon release either by those who are profiteering by making a reservation or grow tired of it after a few months. That happens to almost every new release. Where the Snoopy is involved is that there are millions of Peanuts fans out there who might pick one up on eBay, keeps the price up, whereas the ST has no such secondary fanbase. This is neither controversial or unreasonable.
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Cad290
·If you want to get "proof" to prove me wrong, please feel free. We're just watch fans here, I'm not aware that any of us work for Omega or can provide definitive answers to any question relative to purchase motivation. The point of discussion forums is to discuss. If everything were factual and nothing was emotional, theoretical, or up for debate we wouldn't be here.
When a luxury brand associates itself with another brand it does so to sell product. Omega through it was worthy to plaster their storefronts with Snoopy imagery when the Silver was released and that wasn't only to attract hardcore NASA fans. You should take that clear message as directional, answers your questions of Omega's intent and whether or not my argument is of merit.
Back to the OP's original question, I believe that the ST will be readily available upon release either by those who are profiteering by making a reservation or grow tired of it after a few months. That happens to almost every new release. Where the Snoopy is involved is that there are millions of Peanuts fans out there who might pick one up on eBay, keeps the price up, whereas the ST has no such secondary fanbase. This is neither controversial or unreasonable.
Do a deep internet search of the blogs and websites of the millions of Peanuts fans and show me where they are talking about buying the Silver Snoopy. Here's what I found so far:
https://collectpeanuts.com/wp/product-category/jewelry/watches/
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lillatroll
·Back to the OP's original question, I believe that the ST will be readily available upon release either by those who are profiteering by making a reservation or grow tired of it after a few months. That happens to almost every new release. Where the Snoopy is involved is that there are millions of Peanuts fans out there who might pick one up on eBay, keeps the price up, whereas the ST has no such secondary fanbase. This is neither controversial or unreasonable.
When the snoopy was released they were being offered on the secondary market for up to 20k. After a while the price has settled to plus/minus 10k. I wonder if part of the reason it has remained high is that people feel it is worth more because of the original faroar and the stupid high prices being asked for on the secondary market immediately after release.
The ST might suffer the same fate, however I think that because it is a watch that is being bought by watch fans (I think non WIS and speculators missed the boat on this one) I don't think that many will end up on the secondary market in the near future. What the asking price will be is anyone's guess. I hope people just enjoy it and not worry about the money.
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Riviera Paradise
·@speedolex, I suppose that someone with a "Snoopy crush" (and completely ignorant of the NASA-Snoopy association) could be drawn to the Omega marketing campaign (visuals, dial graphic etc.) and might then purchase the Apollo 13 tribute watch.
BUT..how do we know whether they pulled the trigger on a US$+6K luxury watch just based on their initial enthusiasm for Snoopy or later finding out why NASA allowed Omega to put a Snoopy on the dial? How much relative value did the Snoopy, NASA and Omega brand associations add to the perceived final value of the product? Were Snoopy watch customers required or "sweetened with swag" to fill out a post-sales questionnaire on purchase motivation? I think not.
I think what some on the OF are trying to offer you guidance on is that although some of the points you raise are valid speculation, they are not facts.
We have no idea as to how much of the Snoopy brand global target market would consider purchasing a US$6.5K luxury watch in the future , just based on the Snoopy brand association (the other Speedy LEs have the same Omega/NASA branding association). So stating that the Snoopy brand market represents a significant secondary market of real potential customers beyond the NASA and Omega brand footprint cannot be stated as fact.
If you accept your arguments / POVs on this topic as valid speculation, I am sure most on the OF will accept them and we can get back on topic discussing alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE. OK, amigo?😉
BUT..how do we know whether they pulled the trigger on a US$+6K luxury watch just based on their initial enthusiasm for Snoopy or later finding out why NASA allowed Omega to put a Snoopy on the dial? How much relative value did the Snoopy, NASA and Omega brand associations add to the perceived final value of the product? Were Snoopy watch customers required or "sweetened with swag" to fill out a post-sales questionnaire on purchase motivation? I think not.
I think what some on the OF are trying to offer you guidance on is that although some of the points you raise are valid speculation, they are not facts.
We have no idea as to how much of the Snoopy brand global target market would consider purchasing a US$6.5K luxury watch in the future , just based on the Snoopy brand association (the other Speedy LEs have the same Omega/NASA branding association). So stating that the Snoopy brand market represents a significant secondary market of real potential customers beyond the NASA and Omega brand footprint cannot be stated as fact.
If you accept your arguments / POVs on this topic as valid speculation, I am sure most on the OF will accept them and we can get back on topic discussing alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE. OK, amigo?😉
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speedolex
·I don't need to prove you wrong...I'm not the one making claims that I can't substantiate...
Sure you do. You're the one making accusations based on your own beliefs which is hypocritical considering that's exactly what you're doing to me. Show me the data that says 100% of buyers of this watch are hardcore Omega Speedmaster NASA fans and not Peanuts fans. Frankly, I think the whole tangent is ridiculous and you're just trolling me, if that's your intent you win.
I believe, based on experience and common sense, that a portion of Silver Snoopy buyers are fans of the cartoon character. Omega's marketing strategy supports this. Boutique window photo above. Pitch from Omega's website below:
A tribute to the 45th anniversary of the legendary Apollo 13 mission and the Silver Snoopy Award that OMEGA received from the astronauts upon their safe return to Earth, this timepiece tells a story of the brand's role in space exploration and highlights NASA's connection to Snoopy and the rest of the Peanuts gang.
https://www.omegawatches.com/watches/speedmaster/moonwatch/apollo-13-silver-snoopy-award/product/
The thing has a bold Snoopy on the front of the watch. It has a gigantic Snoopy on the back of the watch. It came with a Snoopy pin. Omega Boutiques put huge Snoopy displays in the window. Omega themselves refer to the connection to Snoopy and the rest of the Peanuts gang. Oh, but it's not about Snoopy. No.
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speedolex
·@speedolex, I suppose that someone with a "Snoopy crush" (and completely ignorant of the NASA-Snoopy association) could be drawn to the Omega marketing campaign (visuals, dial graphic etc.) and might then purchase the Apollo 13 tribute watch.
If you accept your arguments / POVs on this topic as valid speculation, I am sure most on the OF will accept them and we can get back on topic discussing alternatives to the Speedy Tuesday LE. OK, amigo?😉
Yes, please, thank you. Valid speculation, nothing more.
I'm not anti-Snoopy or anti-ST. They're great watches for those who are into either of those niches and I don't want to spend another day discussing the merits of wealthy elders with a cartoon fetish any more than you do. Fluffy White Dove Of Peace in full effect.
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R3D9
·Greeting all,
I posted the same comments below on another threat called Question for all Speedy Tuesday Resevation holders, but am posting it here as well to update everyone on my present state of mind.
Thanks to all of you who made suggestions for alternative options!
After starting the thread that eventually evolved into a firestorm, I've begun to contemplate two possible outcomes:
1. The ST could potentially show up on the secondary market for a reasonable markup over list price. It that is the case, I'll be looking to pick one up. Reasonable, to my mind, is upwards of $1000 over list. If it's much beyond that, I'll take a wait-and-see approach and hope the market cools off in a year or two.
2. The ST could be the next Silver Snoopy. If that's the case, there is no way I'm going to pay 2x retail to acquire one. This is not intended as a knock against those that would pay such a price... If funds were unlimited? Sure, I'd be happy to pay a huge premium, but funds are not unlimited in my case and there are too many other watches sitting on my to-acquire list (Rolex Explorer I, JLC Geophysic 1958, presently sitting at the top of said list) to pay $15k+ for a modern Speedy.
I've kind of reached the conclusion that, although there have been a bunch of beautiful watches suggested as alternatives, none of them made my heart skip a beat the way the ST did when I first saw it.
Now, over the last few weeks, I've been digging deeper into the world of Speedmasters and I've got to admit - I've kind of fallen in love with the original moonwatch.
So here's what I'm currently thinking:
I'm going to look for a nice, quality example of a 3570.50 to pick up on the used market. Frankly, it's flat-out a damned fine watch and it'll more than satisfy my cravings in the short-term, and maybe even in the long-term... who knows?
The bonus of picking up a quality example will be that if scenario one becomes a reality, I can flip my Speedy to help fund the purchase of the ST.
I posted the same comments below on another threat called Question for all Speedy Tuesday Resevation holders, but am posting it here as well to update everyone on my present state of mind.
Thanks to all of you who made suggestions for alternative options!
After starting the thread that eventually evolved into a firestorm, I've begun to contemplate two possible outcomes:
1. The ST could potentially show up on the secondary market for a reasonable markup over list price. It that is the case, I'll be looking to pick one up. Reasonable, to my mind, is upwards of $1000 over list. If it's much beyond that, I'll take a wait-and-see approach and hope the market cools off in a year or two.
2. The ST could be the next Silver Snoopy. If that's the case, there is no way I'm going to pay 2x retail to acquire one. This is not intended as a knock against those that would pay such a price... If funds were unlimited? Sure, I'd be happy to pay a huge premium, but funds are not unlimited in my case and there are too many other watches sitting on my to-acquire list (Rolex Explorer I, JLC Geophysic 1958, presently sitting at the top of said list) to pay $15k+ for a modern Speedy.
I've kind of reached the conclusion that, although there have been a bunch of beautiful watches suggested as alternatives, none of them made my heart skip a beat the way the ST did when I first saw it.
Now, over the last few weeks, I've been digging deeper into the world of Speedmasters and I've got to admit - I've kind of fallen in love with the original moonwatch.
So here's what I'm currently thinking:
I'm going to look for a nice, quality example of a 3570.50 to pick up on the used market. Frankly, it's flat-out a damned fine watch and it'll more than satisfy my cravings in the short-term, and maybe even in the long-term... who knows?
The bonus of picking up a quality example will be that if scenario one becomes a reality, I can flip my Speedy to help fund the purchase of the ST.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerSure you do. You're the one making accusations based on your own beliefs which is hypocritical considering that's exactly what you're doing to me. Show me the data that says 100% of buyers of this watch are hardcore Omega Speedmaster NASA fans and not Peanuts fans.
Onus probandi...argument from ignorance...classic stuff!
Why would I have to back up a claim that I've never made? I have no beliefs about the percentage of Omega v Snoopy collectors who buy this watch. This sort of claim seems to be your specialty, so I'm just asking for some facts to back up what you are claiming. Showing me pictures of store displays, etc. doesn't prove any cartoon enthusiasts have bought any of these, let alone that the demand from this sector is equal to that of the Omega collectors.
You are entitled to your opinions, but those are not the same as facts.
Cheers, Al
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Riviera Paradise
·Onus probandi...argument from ignorance...classic stuff!
Why would I have to back up a claim that I've never made? I have no beliefs about the percentage of Omega v Snoopy collectors who buy this watch. This sort of claim seems to be your specialty, so I'm just asking for some facts to back up what you are claiming. Showing me pictures of store displays, etc. doesn't prove any cartoon enthusiasts have bought any of these, let alone that the demand from this sector is equal to that of the Omega collectors.
You are entitled to your opinions, but those are not the same as facts.
Cheers, Al
However, Speedolex just posted that he agrees that his opinions on the market evaluation / relative value of the Snoopy and ST LEs are speculation and not facts. So all hunky dory now, right mate?
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Foo2rama
··Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can.
Sure you do. You're the one making accusations based on your own beliefs which is hypocritical considering that's exactly what you're doing to me. Show me the data that says 100% of buyers of this watch are hardcore Omega Speedmaster NASA fans and not Peanuts fans. Frankly, I think the whole tangent is ridiculous and you're just trolling me, if that's your intent you win.
I believe, based on experience and common sense, that a portion of Silver Snoopy buyers are fans of the cartoon character. Omega's marketing strategy supports this. Boutique window photo above. Pitch from Omega's website below:
A tribute to the 45th anniversary of the legendary Apollo 13 mission and the Silver Snoopy Award that OMEGA received from the astronauts upon their safe return to Earth, this timepiece tells a story of the brand's role in space exploration and highlights NASA's connection to Snoopy and the rest of the Peanuts gang.
https://www.omegawatches.com/watches/speedmaster/moonwatch/apollo-13-silver-snoopy-award/product/
The thing has a bold Snoopy on the front of the watch. It has a gigantic Snoopy on the back of the watch. It came with a Snoopy pin. Omega Boutiques put huge Snoopy displays in the window. Omega themselves refer to the connection to Snoopy and the rest of the Peanuts gang. Oh, but it's not about Snoopy. No.
Now your just trolling. 2nd or 3rd time you have accused people of what your doing.
Your also speaking in absolutes when no one else is. No one stated someone did not buy it for the Snoopy, I'd bet someone did. What everyone here is saying is that the Snoopy collectors are not driving the price of this watch up.
I'm done with this, it has to be a troll.
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Riviera Paradise
·🍿
