Stolen watch: omega seamaster 166.024

[pitbos]

gbesq

I believe that the OP has already explained that Secursus operates on a per TRANSACTION basis and the OP chose not to obtain insurance on this particular shipment. So it really doesn’t matter what the Secursus policy says as it applies to this transaction because no insurance was purchased.

Apologies, I missed that - thank you for clarifying.

 

[Pastorbottle]

la_lusigne

I contacted them quite a while ago. Here is the email I got :


It translates :
“Hello,

Unfortunately, our insurance policy only covers goods that are the subject of a commercial transaction (purchase/sale).
We cannot cover items sent for repair.
Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require any further information.

Yours faithfully”

Maybe their policy has changed since then but I didn’t check.

I didn’t use their services since then so there is no use in contacting them.

I would call sending it to and from a watchmaker for repair is a commercial transaction after all you would've paid for the repairs.
Just another case of insurance scum, weasling their way out of their obligations

 

[Dan S]

The Secursus website makes it clear that they will not cover a shipment like this. The T&C explicitly mention that the value must be established by a bill of sale between the customer and the recipient and also says that they do not cover items sent for repair. TBH, it seems that every time this company's name is mentioned on the forum, another problematic policy is exposed. The only people who are happy with them are people who have never had to make a claim, because the insurance is so cheap.

Edited: May 16, 2024

 

[YYTIN]

I am really sorry for this loss !
We will all keep an eye on the 166.024 that will go on sale in the future. I’m adding this model to my automatic search and alerting.

Regarding secursus I am not here to defend their policy but I do kind of understand why they would not cover a transfer that has not given place to a full value payment of the transaction, like for a repair. Just imagine how easy it would be then to organize a scum.

I would be interested to know if someone in Europe is having a good insurance policy/practice to recommend for those kind of things. Secursus took a place that seems to be empty (at least from where I live) to me for « full payment transaction » but when you go for a repair internationally I don’t really know a solution especially when the likes of UPS, DPD, DHL etc do not propose an insurance (it is the case between some countries).
Edit : if this is better to move the last paragraph to another or a new thread, I’ll do so.

 

[watchyouwant]

At this stage it's all speculation. My speculation would be : It was stolen at the UPS office at the Watchmakers area. They will know the Name and what other shipments he gets. They have time to carefully open , remove and carefully repackage. Could even manipulate the weight in the documentation. 1.) check with ups the weight question and who signed at ups for the transaction. 2.) check with the watchmaker, which weight he put in the documentation. Maybe took a picture before packing, which is mandatory with Secursus and might be a habit for him. Get the name of the watchmakers guy, who brought it to Ups. And so on ....Good luck !

 

[flqt-9000]

watchyouwant

At this stage it's all speculation. My speculation would be : It was stolen at the UPS office at the Watchmakers area. They will know the Name and what other shipments he gets. They have time to carefully open , remove and carefully repackage. Could even manipulate the weight in the documentation. 1.) check with ups the weight question and who signed at ups for the transaction. 2.) check with the watchmaker, which weight he put in the documentation. Maybe took a picture before packing, which is mandatory with Secursus and might be a habit for him. Get the name of the watchmakers guy, who brought it to Ups. And so on ....Good luck !

I totally agree. Also because the handling proccess is fully automatized once that the parcel gets to the sorting facilities.

 

[Redondo444]

flqt-9000

I totally agree. Also because the handling proccess is fully automatized once that the parcel gets to the sorting facilities.

Afaik its not the case:
Shipment still to be loaded and unloaded in/from truck/airplane/Van manually and not fully automatized.

Was anything listed on the parcel/shipper address which made someone who handled the shipment assume what is in there?

 

[bardamu]

I had seen Tarabella's warnings on social medias but I'm so sad to know that this happened to you.
I agree with the above, Roberto Tarabella is a professional well known all over the world of vintage watches passionates and someone probably was keeping an eye on shipments coming from him.
I will keep my eyes open on the serial number, I hope you find your watch.

 

[la_lusigne]

Redondo444

Afaik its not the case:
Shipment still to be loaded and unloaded in/from truck/airplane/Van manually and not fully automatized.

Was anything listed on the parcel/shipper address which made someone who handled the shipment assume what is in there?

The only thing that could have been a telltale would be in the address and the name of the shop "L'orologiaio"

 

[STANDY]

Redondo444

Afaik its not the case:
Shipment still to be loaded and unloaded in/from truck/airplane/Van manually and not fully automatized.

Was anything listed on the parcel/shipper address which made someone who handled the shipment assume what is in there?

Once it hits sorting to country it’s in a bag with 20 other parcels with a zip tie.
Been at all the big couriers over the years and if it’s air it’s always bags in an Air can…. Barcode on each bag is a sub-master of the 20 parcels.

Works like this.
Entire shipment is a Master bill #
Each bags are Sub-master bill #
Each individual parcels are House bill #s

So its in a bag from the sorting facility in country A until sorting facility in country B

Would have to be from watchmaker to UPS airport facility or from country destination airport facility to post box.

Edited: May 17, 2024

 

[Redondo444]

STANDY

Once it hits sorting to country it’s in a bag with 20 other parcels with a zip tie.
Been at all the big couriers over the years and if it’s air it’s always bags in an Air can…. Barcode on each bag is a sub-master of the 20 parcels.

Works like this.
Entire shipment is a Master bill #
Each bags are Sub-master bill #
Each individual parcels are House bill #s

So its in a bag from the sorting facility in country A until sorting facility in country B

Would have to be from watchmaker to UPS airport facility or from country destination airport facility to post box.

I'm general i have only seen bags for flyers not for parcels.
I doubt they stay in the bag the whole time from origin to destination as they can't be put on conveyor belt for automatized sorting in the hubs.

In general I assume it's loose load in the ULD/air containers hence could also happen in transition Hubs from Italy to France.

But likelyhood indeed way higher it happened either at handing in the shipment/first touch point with UPS (if was shipped directly with UPS - if send with a broker who consolidates the shipments then maybe there) or at final delivery of the shipment.

la_lusigne

The only thing that could have been a telltale would be in the address and the name of the shop "L'orologiaio"

This might be a valuable hint for the potential thief which points more to Italian side than french side. But I am not sure how much this word is corellating to french words which could be associated with watches.

I would expect UPS having CCTVs in all their facilities and they could trace the shipment with the CCTV.
From my point of view UPS should start an internal investigation on your case which usually includes a collaboration with the police if they find some evidence.

Edited: May 17, 2024

 

[STANDY]

Redondo444

I'm general i have only seen bags for flyers not for parcels.
I doubt they stay in the bag the whole time from origin to destination as they can't be put on conveyor belt for automatized sorting in the hubs.

In general I assume it's loose load in the ULD/air containers hence could also happen in transition Hubs from Italy to France.

But likelyhood indeed way higher it happened either at handing in the shipment/first touch point with UPS (if was shipped directly with UPS - if send with a broker who consolidates the shipments then maybe there) or at final delivery of the shipment.

Small parcels can not travel in an air can and not be in bags. It’s a rule for all carriers. IATA rules. They are taken out of a bag at the airport sorting facility. The air cans have a Velcro section or a whole side door that if full of parcels they would fall out once opened.
True only in a bag for flying so from Italian airport sorting hub to French airport sorting hub. Parcels the rest of the time.

 

[JwRosenthal]

Not focusing on causation of the loss but now financial damage control- do you have homeowners insurance there, and if so- would the watch be covered by the policy? Since this wasn’t considered a “commercial transaction”, your personal property was stolen- would that fall under personal property loss on homeowners insurance?

 

[Twocats]

I am really sorry for your loss, there is nothing worse than seeing the ugly side of humanity in this way.

I have shipped all over the world via DHL without issue. They always suggest like for like value insurance and insist on seeing the watch before sealing the box. It's not cheap but it does give me confidence.

 

[gbesq]

Twocats

I am really sorry for your loss, there is nothing worse than seeing the ugly side of humanity in this way.

I have shipped all over the world via DHL without issue. They always suggest like for like value insurance and insist on seeing the watch before sealing the box. It's not cheap but it does give me confidence.

I agree. Never a problem with DHL. USPS has also been flawless for anything that I've given them. FedEx -- not so much. The biggest problem that I've had with them, and I've had it more than once, is them leaving a package with a valuable watch outside my door -- once for an entire long holiday weekend when I was out of town -- despite a signature being required for delivery and despite me instructing them in advance on their website (I have an account) to put the parcel on vacation hold and that I would pick it up at a Fedex access point. Fortunately, I live in a low crime area and have good neighbors who noticed the package after it sat there overnight, picked it up, and left me a note on my door to come pick it up upon my return. Based on past experience, I will not use FedEx for any watch that I ship and I ask sellers to ship to me via DHL or USPS. .

 

[Pastorbottle]

I've been the bloke building and commissioning the automated postal and parcel handling systems and the bloke that does the training the of the technical staff that look after it.
The individual packages are x-rayed at the country of origin before they get on the plane to ensure there is nothing terrorist related or of danger to the plane and it's occupants. And x-rayed again at the destination country by customs to ensure that there is nothing inside the individual package that might be contraband.
Once past the x-ray machine it is and the destination country it is highly unlikely that human hands will touch the package again until it gets to the delivery van which is packed by it's driver, unless there is a jam up in the automated system, the whole automated parcel handling system moves at @ 3meters a second and if there is a jam up no one has time to buggerise about looking at packages, unless they fall off the system or they can't be processed because the labeling is damaged or can't be read by the scanners, in which case it stays on the conveyor until the end of the shift and removed manually by the technical staff to be manually processed as a batch for a subsequent shift, these batches are stored in a pallet bin until they get around the being handled.

There are cameras everywhere throughout the automated mail and parcel handling facilities. off course these may not always be monitored properly, but no individual working there can know when and where such monitoring is happening in real time and it is all recorded for further viewing should an incident occur.
Now realistically no one is going to wade through all that video footage unless a major incident or a trend occurs. but it does sometimes happen.

The theft most likely occurred at either end of the system and there would most likely be a trend of these thefts occurring.
The customs officials don't take their eyes off the separate parcels until they enter the system.
The delivery drivers are under a shit ton of pressure to do their deliveries to a timetable so don't have much time to fiddle about with individual parcels, and any trend in missing goods will quickly single them out for investigation, so it's unlikely to be them... at least until they get investigated.
So my money is on the theft occurring in the country of origin.

 

[kcsf]

OP, check with your homeowners or renters policy as they 'should' cover such an incidence.

 

[Walrus]

I don’t want to give UPS a bad name but they hire a lot of part time workers as sorters. They hire people from our place. On a few occasions I’ve read about theft rings at that “sort” location wherever it may be. I’m sure it can happen anywhere. It’s one of the few places I can get jobs for people with more recent criminal charges. Having said that I have never had any go missing through UPS.

 

[Larry S]

gbesq

I agree. Never a problem with DHL. USPS has also been flawless for anything that I've given them. FedEx -- not so much. The biggest problem that I've had with them, and I've had it more than once, is them leaving a package with a valuable watch outside my door -- once for an entire long holiday weekend when I was out of town -- despite a signature being required for delivery and despite me instructing them in advance on their website (I have an account) to put the parcel on vacation hold and that I would pick it up at a Fedex access point. Fortunately, I live in a low crime area and have good neighbors who noticed the package after it sat there overnight, picked it up, and left me a note on my door to come pick it up upon my return. Based on past experience, I will not use FedEx for any watch that I ship and I ask sellers to ship to me via DHL or USPS. .

Easiest thing to do is hold for pickup. I’ve never had a problem with DHL or FedEx. Ups on the other hand left a 3k camera on my stoop after I had clearly specified hold for pickup.

 

[Davidt]

FedEx in the UK are average at best. DHL much, much better.
I had a £6k parcel left with a neighbour, even though I was in when delivery was ‘attempted’. It was shipped international priority and needed a signature from the recipient.