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New Omega 321 (321b, Cernan-inspired) Chrono Issues?

J
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I've owned the 321 for a few months now. I absolutely adore the watch. Some odd behavior has become apparent recently, and I wanted to find out if the watch is likely to have an issue or if this is just the nature of the 321b.

Last month, about 30 hours into a full wind, I started the chronograph. The chrono, along with the entire watch, stopped about an hour later. I pushed the start/stop pusher twice and it started again. And then stopped again some time later. Since the watch has a 55 hour reserve, my thought was that there was something wrong.

I've tried to replicate the behavior by winding the watch full and letting the chronograph run. After about 34 hours, pretty consistently, the watch stops. If you press the start/stop pusher, it'll run for some time again before stopping again. Rinse and repeat. If you push the start/stop pusher to get the watch running and then stop the chronograph, the time will keep running for another day or so.

It seems like once the watch gets to about a day an a half past full wind, it isn't capable of consistently supporting the chrono operation. Is that normal? Is it possible the mainspring just doesn't have enough torque as the spring unwinds to support the chrono? Or should you expect the 321 chronograph should run close to the full 55 hour reserve?

For clarification, I don't intend to operate the chronograph full time like this; I just want to make sure there is no issue with my watch.
 
Evitzee
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A chronograph will stop sooner because of the drag of the mechanism as it clicks from one minute to the next. I've not checked my Ed White 321 but I can't remember having any chrono issues after 2 1/2 years of ownership. Since a full wind will normally give 60-62 hours of normal running time I would think using the chrono after 30 hours or so would cause no problems. Are you fully winding the watch to begin with, until it hits a full, hard stop? If you aren't winding it fully you are deeper into the power reserve at 30+ hours which is why you are having issues with the chrono.
Edited:
 
J
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Evitzee Evitzee
A chronograph will stop sooner because of the drag of the mechanism as it clicks from one minute to the next. I've not checked my Ed White 321 but I can't remember having any chrono issues after 2 1/2 years of ownership. Since a full wind will normally give 60-62 hours of normal running time I would think using the chrono after 30 hours or so would cause no problems. Are you fully winding the watch to begin with, until it hits a full, hard stop? If you aren't winding it fully you are deeper into the power reserve at 30+ hours which is why you are having issues with the chrono.
Fully wound, yes.
 
GrouchoM
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How long will it run after a full wind without the chronograph on?
 
Scarecrow Boat
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J justonwo
Fully wound, yes
Okay, but are you winding until you hit the literal stopping point or until you feel resistance from the spring? This distinction sometimes has to be made as many people think feeling resistance equals a full wind, when it actually does not.
 
J
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GrouchoM GrouchoM
How long will it run after a full wind without the chronograph on?
I’ve never tested it fully but probably 2.5 days or so.
 
J
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Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
Okay, but are you winding until you hit the literal stopping point or until you feel resistance from the spring? This distinction sometimes has to be made as many people think feeling resistance equals a full wind, when it actually does not.
Yes, it’s fully wound. I’ve had a lot of manual wind watches.
 
Evitzee
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J justonwo
I’ve never tested it fully but probably 2.5 days or so.
You need to test it. Wind it fully and see how long it runs with chrono off, if you don't get at least 60 hours you aren't fully winding it.
 
J
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Evitzee Evitzee
You need to test it. Wind it fully and see how long it runs with chrono off, if you don't get at least 60 hours you aren't fully winding it.
With respect, I know how to wind a manual watch. I’m 110% certain it is fully wound. I could wind it another half turn with pliers, but then I’d break the mainspring.

It would be really helpful if someone who knows this movement well could respond. Perhaps an experienced watchmaker who knows the 321b.
 
Evitzee
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J justonwo
With respect, I know how to wind a manual watch. I’m 110% certain it is fully wound. I could wind it another half turn with pliers, but then I’d break the mainspring.

It would be really helpful if someone who knows this movement well could respond. Perhaps an experienced watchmaker who knows the 321b.
If you think you are having a problem with the chrono function after 30 or so hours the first thing you need to do is to verify that you are getting a full run time from a fully wound watch, that means winding it up and letting it run with the chrono off. If you get about 60 hours then you know the watch is ok from that standpoint. Then if you are still having problems with the chrono function past the 30 hour mark on a fullly wound watch then you know there is an issue with the chrono mechanism. There are adjustments there that could cause the watch to stop with the chrono running if out of adjustment.

I wound my 321b up last night and will test it when it gets past the 30 hour mark and will report back when I start having issues with the chrono running as the mainspring winds down. But it is hard to diagnose a watch from afar without setting up a regime to know what you are dealing with.
 
J
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Evitzee Evitzee
If you think you are having a problem with the chrono function after 30 or so hours the first thing you need to do is to verify that you are getting a full run time from a fully wound watch, that means winding it up and letting it run with the chrono off. If you get about 60 hours then you know the watch is ok from that standpoint. Then if you are still having problems with the chrono function past the 30 hour mark on a fullly wound watch then you know there is an issue with the chrono mechanism. There are adjustments there that could cause the watch to stop with the chrono running if out of adjustment.

I wound my 321b up last night and will test it when it gets past the 30 hour mark and will report back when I start having issues with the chrono running as the mainspring winds down. But it is hard to diagnose a watch from afar without setting up a regime to know what you are dealing with.
Yep, agree. I’m just out of the country right now so can’t access it. Let me know how long your chrono runs on full wind before stopping. Thanks!

One thing that is true - if I turn the chrono off after it stops, the watch itself will run another 24 hours or so.
 
Evitzee
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OK @justonwo , I've just run a two day check on my Ed White 321 that was originally purchased from an OB in January 2021, so it is almost four years old. Wound it fully and started the chrono, it ran fine for 52 hours, 10 minutes when it stopped as the minute chrono hand hit 12 o'clock, as expected. The power left in the mainspring isn't sufficient to push the mechanism through a minute change. Stopped the chronograph and the watch started up and ran another 9 hours, 40 minutes for a total run time of 61 hours, 50 minutes. I think that is pretty typical for a 321b movement. If you are finding your watch stopping after 30 hours with the chrono on it would indicate that your watch needs to be adjusted. But I'd first run a check to see what your total run time with the chrono off is just to rule out any other issues with the movement. If you get anything less than 60 hours something else is wrong. Good luck.
Edited:
 
J
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Evitzee Evitzee
OK @justonwo , I've just run a two day check on my Ed White 321 that was originally purchased from an OB in January 2021, so it is almost four years old. Wound it fully and started the chrono, it ran fine for 52 hours, 10 minutes when it stopped as the minute chrono hand hit 12 o'clock, as expected. The power left in the mainspring isn't sufficient to push the mechanism through a minute change. Stopped the chronograph and the watch started up and ran another 9 hours, 40 minutes for a total run time of 61 hours, 50 minutes. I think that is pretty typical for a 321b movement. If you are finding your watch stopping after 30 hours with the chrono on it would indicate that your watch needs to be adjusted. But I'd first run a check to see what your total run time with the chrono off is just to rule out any other issues with the movement. If you get anything less than 60 hours something else is wrong. Good luck.
This is very helpful, thanks. This tells me it should get near the rated time with the chrono running (55 hours). In well below that. I’ll check to see what the total run time is without chrono but pretty clear my watch needs adjustment regardless. Bummer.
 
J
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The dealer I purchased the watch from is kind enough to replace the 321 for me instead of make me go through months with Omega warranty. He has another new 321 and is testing it with chrono running.

First test was 43 hours and second test is at least 46 hours at last check-in.

It does sound like, when mainspring torque is reduced near full release on the mainspring, there simply isn’t enough torque available to keep everything going.
 
Archer
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J justonwo
It does sound like, when mainspring torque is reduced near full release on the mainspring, there simply isn’t enough torque available to keep everything going.
That's how it works - nothing unusual there. The quoted power reserve is with the chronograph off...
 
J
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Archer Archer
That's how it works - nothing unusual there. The quoted power reserve is with the chronograph off...
Understood, but the question is how many hours should it be able to go with the chronograph running before you determine the watch isn't properly adjusted? Mine only goes 34 hours. And that also means if I start the chronograph after 34 hours of run time, it will likely get stuck (which is what originally generated my concern).

It sounds like Evitzee can get over 50 hours with the chronograph running. And my dealer just got another replacement 321 for my watch and it ran a full 61 hours with the chrono running. So seems like mine not being to handle the chrono after 34 hours is probably out of spec. Regardless, my dealer is replacing (kudos to him).
 
bsowers34
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Just curious, why would you even want the chrono running all the time? I'm ocd about runtime as others here know, but I've never felt the need to test them this way. I don't have a 321(yet?) but I'm getting 60 plus hours consistently with my three 3861s.
 
J
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bsowers34 bsowers34
Just curious, why would you even want the chrono running all the time? I'm ocd about runtime as others here know, but I've never felt the need to test them this way. I don't have a 321(yet?) but I'm getting 60 plus hours consistently with my three 3861s.
Sorry, I've already explained this a couple of times. Please re-read the thread.
 
Archer
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J justonwo
Understood, but the question is how many hours should it be able to go with the chronograph running before you determine the watch isn't properly adjusted? Mine only goes 34 hours. And that also means if I start the chronograph after 34 hours of run time, it will likely get stuck (which is what originally generated my concern).

It sounds like Evitzee can get over 50 hours with the chronograph running. And my dealer just got another replacement 321 for my watch and it ran a full 61 hours with the chrono running. So seems like mine not being to handle the chrono after 34 hours is probably out of spec. Regardless, my dealer is replacing (kudos to him).
Agreed that your dealer is doing you a solid. There is no spec for the length of time that the watch should run with the chronograph running, so technically there's no real fault here that you can determine on your own.

What there is a spec for is the drop in balance amplitude when the chronograph is started. The balance amplitude should not drop more than 40 degrees when the chronograph has started. Until that check is done, there's no evidence that your watch is malfunctioning.

Just FYI, these watches are designed to be wound daily.
 
J
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Archer Archer
Agreed that your dealer is doing you a solid. There is no spec for the length of time that the watch should run with the chronograph running, so technically there's no real fault here that you can determine on your own.

What there is a spec for is the drop in balance amplitude when the chronograph is started. The balance amplitude should not drop more than 40 degrees when the chronograph has started. Until that check is done, there's no evidence that your watch is malfunctioning.

Just FYI, these watches are designed to be wound daily.
Understood. In the end, I was trying to avoid sending basically a brand new watch to Switzerland for months.
 
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