Alchemy...be scared, be very scared

This is a very interesting conundrum. I would probably wear it unless I could find an aftermarket that had the same look and was nearly indistinguishable.

My 6536/1 has a later long 5 insert, and if I could get an aftermarket red triangle insert that looked as good as the fuchsia does, I’d do it in a heartbeat as I don’t have $20-30k sitting around for an insert.

It’s all very intriguing to me, as the market has changed the hobby so much. We now have to have these conversations, and what was once a hypothetical is now a reality.

This is exactly why you buy two. One to wear and one for the safe.

Loved by some.... hated by most 😲

I don’t even own a gmt yet but my green eyes are showing 😗

To carry on the conversation, I’ve heard from other members this is coming with the DON so not surprised with other bezels. $5k for a perfect DON is not worth chipping. I’d rather have a “beater” and not worry about a $1-2k chip from normal wear.

@STANDY I guess you’re right. This $250 part devalues my entire collection.

And you are right...I have changed. I put a fake insert on my 1675 to preserve the real one, and shared with other collectors what is now in the market.

But luckily you haven’t changed, you are still a dick👍

I have no beef in this, but I consider both @watchknut and @STANDY to be great members of Omega Forums; if I could offer my 2 cents to this "collecting philosophy":

1) prices on Fuschia inserts are incredible. A mint condition one will/should set you back at least 5000 USD.

2) I understand what @STANDY is talking about, when you mentioned the difference between a half fake and a full fake watch, perhaps some collectors look at things in a black or white situation. Either it's legitimate or it isn't.

Consider Seiko mods. Hundreds of collectors enjoy modding the hell out of their Seiko SKX007s to look like a black bay, snowflake, submariner, GMT.

Not the most accurate example, but I feel there might be a similar mindset/overlap here.

I'm not a fan of modded Seikos (they simply don't attract me) however if a 5000USD insert might have the chance of being damaged and to replace it with an AM piece that offers the same look, I don't see the issue. Preserving and maintaining the value of certain parts of a watch makes financial sense to me as a collector.

2.5) of course, folks will say "well if you damn well am afraid to wear it, then don't buy it! Because you can't afford to wear it!!!"

Yes and no, but there's so many variables to this, it does warrant a separate discussion.

3) everyone has their own collecting philosophy but I personally feel there isn't an issue (because @watchknut isn't selling or advertising his watch for sale. It's merely for show and to use/wear).

Last but not least, I think this is interesting because everyone is a collector and IMHO, everyone has a certain tolerance to their level of collecting. There isn't a right or wrong, hypocritical or not.

Everyone should have a right to collect the way they want to.
Peace.

Edit:

Perfect example I feel (upon reflecton) is how some owners take out the original Omega leather strap/deployant and wear it with another. Be it an AM omega deployant or a JPM leather strap, there are many owners who wish to keep the original strap "unworn" so it's minty and henceforth is considered a better kept watch full box set that would be considered a better purchase as compared to another similar one with a worn/creased but original omega leather strap.

It’s not strange at all. What about art collectors who have their pieces replicated and show the forgery? Or women who gets clones of their jewelry made and keep the real pieces in the safe? The list goes on and on for what collectors do to persevere and enjoy their possessions.

If you have the real thing, you can do whatever in the hell you want with it.

Oh, and the difference, is about $13,000.

Andy what’s wrong with fake dicks? Asking for a friend

This isn't the first time people have swapped out Rolex bezel inserts to preserve the originals - a lot of people with 6542s swap them with aftermarket versions since they're delicate and hard to find in good condition (and when you do you have to sell your car to buy one). Sure, you can also argue that they want to avoid the radiation, but for many it's because they'd like to enjoy the watch with less worry. I, for one, would rather have the supply of original parts in good condition kept as high as possible since there aren't any more being made.

I think a part of faking that gets people annoyed is that the faker is trying to 'show off' something that they can't afford in order to feel superior. I won't wade further into that conversation other than saying, for @watchknut , the intention is to maintain something original he can (and did) buy. If the intention of aftermarket parts had only been to do this, no one would hate 'fakers' since the social norm wouldn't be abhorrent, just seen as an effort in preservation. I know that's not where we are now, but maybe moving the needle in that direction isn't the worst thing.

I agree 100%, and the person I bought from did make it a point to not make a 1:1 repro. The back is not ano pink, and there are other tell tale signs...it is like a signature.

The reason I went through this exercise was to see how good people are making fakes. The answer is clear...if this guy can execute to this leve, then someone without scruples can easily create a fake that would easily pass, undetected, in the market.

You don't, but you will still use it on the road. You will not replicate some parts or swap the engine because you want to preserve the original parts.

I read several things here and for sure, replacing it with factory part is not an issue, as they are made by the same company that own the rights of this watch model. That is more problematic when the part is not produce anymore.

AFAIK, if you truly want to preserve the critical parts an still enjoy the watch instead of have it only for display, then replacing it by something that is clearly not original and signed by its author then it is ok. This is kind of the same spirit than Seiko mods. People modding their Seiko - or at least the example I saw of it - do not try to have a accurate copy another watch. It does not end with Tudor or Blancpain on the dial, and the changed part is clearly different than the original Seiko one. No one could be fooled and, no one is participating in it to fool others.

Now for the ones that tries to mimic the original, that is an issue. Say that it is OK because the main difference needs the insert to be removed to be seen? Sorry, that is not an option. If you do not have the real stuff just next to it or are not an expert of that model, you won't see the difference and this thread exists is proving it.

@watchknut : I understand that the goal when you bought this bezel is not to fool others but for your own enjoyment. Problem is: how can the seller knows that for sure? Does he make them only for dear and trustworthy friends? Did he find a magical way to know when a watch is put on sale with one of its bezel mounted on it, so he can intervene and prevent the sale?
If the answers for both are no, then he participates to the fake market even if - let's accept that for now - he does not want to. If he truly want to avoid that, he can put something on the front that is discreet, yet that cannot be missed. For example I had the stupid idea to buy a UG 287+dial and hands some time ago (bargain price), thinking that finding a matching case will be ok. Now that I know it is not that easy, I am thinking about contacting a (skilled) watchmaker to build a case that is in the same spirit than the Compax. But I will also ask to have it engraved between the lugs to ensure no one could ever sell it saying it is a 100% genuine UG (one day it will be sold no matter what, either because I want it, or because I am dead - let's hope not before Speedy Apollo 11 100th 😁).

So, your seller is contributing to the fake market. And despite the innocent goal that triggered this purchase, as one of his customer you are contributing to the fake market too. That is the biggest problem with fake (or "aftermarket" call them as you want): whatever your initial goal, you end supporting the whole market, therefore the organized crime behind it which is the same than the one behind human trafficking. This is why you should never buy a fake part, no matter your motive.

@Lurk41 Anyone buying a GMT with a fuchsia bezel that doesn’t check the back is not an educated buyer...hence the reason the creator made the backs the totally wrong color.

Organized crime? Human trafficking?

Yeah, don’t that this the case here...which is a watchmaker who happens to have sick CNC skills and is a wizard at anodizing.

Nothing illegal and nothing dishonest with what he is doing or selling. The moment he makes the backs pink is the moment when it hurts the market in my opinion.

What is funny is that these inserts are actually nicer and higher quality than what Rolex produced back in the day.

With laser welding, reluming, relacquering, etc. that goes on the market, it is nice to know where these parts come from and what is possible.

I am curious as to how many respondents actually swim in the vintage Rolex pool?