again: Ranking Swiss Watch Brands

This topic seems to surface inside some other threads.
So let me as well try a ranking of Swiss watch brands from my point of view:
I am in the watch collection scene about 40 years and have visited the workshops and archives of many Swiss watch manufacturers. I saw brands disapearing and rebirthing like Blancpain, were I was in the original factory in Villeret, same with Minerva, Cortebert, Ulysse Nardin, Guinand aso.
So my view on brand ranking is based on a very historic way, not at all interested in todays numbers, revenues and second hand values.
And here I do not count the jewelry labels like Chanel, Cartier... nor the new brands like Panerai, Montblanc, Hublot, Chopard...
(And sorry, I surely miss some remarcable brands.)

Let me try:
- upper upper class:
Patek Philippe, Lange & Söhne, Breguet, F.P. Journe
- middle upper class:
Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron & Constantin, Audemar-Piguet
...
upper middle class:
Rolex, Omega, IWC...
middle middle class:
Breitling, Heuer, Longines, Zenith, Movado, Ebel, Blancpain, Beaume & Mercier. Girard-Perregaux, Eberhard, Beaume & Mercier, Universal Geneve...
- lower middle class:
Doxa, Certina, Tissot, Rado, Mido, Tudor, Eterna, Zodiac, Angelus, Helvetia...

- lower class:
Oris, Nivada, Fortis...

Its my very individual view, not knowing most of the actual models, wether they obey todays high grade watch making standards or craftmansship.

Most of these brands today are not individual manufacturers as they are part of a luxury goods corporation like Swatch, Richemont, LVMH a.s.o. were they share techniques and service infrastructure.
To name two antipodes: Rolex is on its own and they are optimizing industrial mass production, while e.g. Lange & Söhne watches are to a great part handmade with individual high grade movement functions in small batches.

⁣Gruß Konrad
(I do not agree with the att. pyramid, it seems only to count second hand values.)

Thanks @Tony C.
Thats what I wanted to trigger, a more indepth look at the merits of those classical Swiss brands and their historic master pieces.
Konrad

@Spruce: Thats what I want to avoid.
For me e.g. a Zenith Espada with El Primero was a milestone in watchmaking and has a much higher value than a Rolex Daytona with cal Vx 72 or the El Primero derivate. But the market rates the Daytona 4 times higher or even more.
Or take the 3 big original Gerald Genta tool watch designs Nautilus, Royal Oak and Ingenieur SL. The same level of watchmaking, but how different is the actual market value. But I rank the brand Patek Philippe much higher than IWC, because they made many many more outstanding masterpieces.
And I am a lover and not a dealer.
Konrad

I know you didn't make that pyramid chart image but I'm gonna pick a specific aspect of it that immediately stood out to rant about to nobody in particular, though I have other issues with it like completely missing Tudor.

When exactly was this pyramid chart made that Panerai is considered a tier above Omega? Was it when they were falsely advertising the 318 with an upgraded OP II movement but shipping it with a completely untouched base spec Unitas 6497, which they retroactively declared the "OP XXIX" when caught and never used again? And which, by the way, they never really admitted fault for - though they did offer aggrieved customers the option of having the advertised movement installed at the customer's own shipping expense.

Or perhaps it was when they intentionally and repeatedly mislead customers into thinking the P.9200 was a fully in house caliber, even though it turns out it had 2892A2 still stamped on the mainplate.

Or maybe it was when they released the Luminor Due with only 30 metres of water resistance, largely due to a fake screw down caseback, which was actually snap on. Kind of an insult to the brand's original heritage, no?

Or perhaps when they started reducing the quality of their recent watches, removing features like hacking seconds from multiple movements and no longer decorating them either, leaving basic bead blasted finishes and punched and pressed bridges.

Panerai make some cool looking watches, but a tier above Omega? Please.

Some semantics, but I think it's a substantive question: are you ranking watches, or are you ranking brands per se?

If one is ranking brands per se--meaning which brand is the best/ most successful/ most valuable, etc--then it makes good sense to elevate Patek and Rolex and the like: those companies have put much thought into branding, and their success can be measured in their brands' wide recognition and value-retention on the secondary market. I've never lost money on a Rolex. I've lost very significant money reselling Omegas and a Vacheron, even though those latter watches were all, to my mind, superior to any Rolex I've owned. (The VC was especially sad: leagues better than anything Rolex has ever produced if one is considering pure horology, but couldn't find a buyer at 60% retail. Meanwhile my workaday Sub that I bought new, wore for several months and scratched up considerably: I made 2k when I sold it.)

OP, you say you base your ranking on a historic view, but, as has been pointed out, that too can be a matter of branding. What kind of underwear was Aldrin wearing when he set foot on the Moon? If it doesn't matter or influence your own underwear-buying choices, then why does it matter what watch brand he wore? I'm susceptible to it too, but it's quite silly.

As I've matured into this hobby, I've pretty much stopped worrying about brand "ranking," accepted that watches aren't smart investments (at least not for small fish like me), and tried to focus solely on the watches. For that reason, I'd say it's far more useful to rank watches (from various brands) categorically, rather than rank brands among themselves.

In the luxury dive watch category, I might rank Blancpain at the top, followed by Rolex, then Omega...

For dress watches, it's pretty neck-and-neck for Patek and Lange---the latter probably dominates if one focuses on fine movement finishing, the former when it comes to other aspects, such as innovations in complications, etc.

Could go on, of course. But my point is, I think brand-ranking is using too broad a brush, and it's not always clear what it is that people are even ranking.

I will say this, as one example of where I do feel comfortable commenting on a brand as a whole: I just don't get AP--in the modern era. Their entire identity seems to be staked on a single basic design, and it's not even a particularly attractive one to my eyes.

Agree. I look at a standard issue PP movement—a 315 or 324—what you’ll get in a watch that sells in the low to mid 20s preowned; compare that to what you can get in a comparably priced Lange. It’s not even in the same ballpark. Granted, Lange doesn’t make its own cases (right?), and doesn’t have the storied history or exalted clientele that Patek does. But I’d venture to say that Lange is generally producing better un- or modestly-complicated dress watches than Patek.