Highend watch brands (initial impressions)

Posts
389
Likes
1,021
Made in America pretty good too - especially for audio equipment. McIntosh, Krell (pre-D'agostino departure), Magnepan, Grado... I could go on. For watches I have several Hamilton that are still running strong (with the help of my watchmaker!) 80+ years on.

Sorry, I was not mentioning America on purpose as so many of the great brands either disappeared or are now just names in a corporate hierarchy.

Or worse do the whole industry a disservice like the Shinola shenanigans.

But the oldies, certainly.

I'd also put RGM in there as well.

My point was the whole superficiality of the notion of the original post.

Any fans of Bernard Black of Black Books as portrayed by Dylan Moran out there?

I was in one of the AD's in Sydney a while back looking at stuff when I young guy came in wearing a muscle top and track pants and during the process of looking around he asked to see "the most expensive watch you've got"

The latest Lange complication had just arrived and he was shown this and its gorgeous decorated movement visible throughthe caseback's sapphire. "Where do you put the battery?"

::facepalm1::

He bought it - stacking wads of $100's in little neat, alternating stacks on the counter.

I alternated between wanting to cry and just order him from the shop a la Bernard Black.

What a waste.

I kinda feel the same way about the original post.

There is hope for this one, as he is young and keen...

Time will tell.
 
Posts
389
Likes
1,021
I didn't want to start a thread with this so I'm gonna dump it here.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't love watches but there are certain brands that I have a strong dislike for, Hublot and Bell & Ross to name a couple.

So I was surprised today when I came across two B&R watches that I not only like but would happily wear....Bell & Ross Vintage BR Aeronavale available in boutiques from August:



While I approve of those two

I must say...

You TAKE THAT BACK!!!

I love my B&R Red Radar!



"One Ping, Only" always makes me smile

So, while you, and my wife, are entitled to your opions ( she thinks its the most overpriced Swatch I've everbought) you are both wrong!

With you on almost every Hublot ever made - and their names!
 
Posts
968
Likes
3,608
@OP Wow - you've glossed over much of the stuff that is important to me about collecting watches.

Yes, the aesthetics play a part.

But there's the history of the development of the brand and particular model - just start googling some of the brands the OP dismissed, Mr Breguet is kinda important in the scheme of things!

The type of movement and amount of hand-done work and decorations and how they are done on the movement - take a loupe or ask to borrow one when you next look at the back of the "retro 70's Patek's" or a Lange.

The type of functions and complications that are included and how they have been executed - Is your beloved moon phase accurate over 29 days, 110 days or longer as others have mentioned.

Associations with any particular historical events that resonate with you- It aint called a "moon watch" for no reason - I lived through the Apollo landings

The materials science and technology in volved in achieving the model - Richarde Mille's strong suite - more unobtanium than you can poke a stick at - Omega's magnetic field resistance is the result of this, as are ceramic cases.

Then there's the type of watch, dress, diver, field, pilot etc, etc

I'm frankly gob-smacked that you could think it didn't makke sense for a large conglomerate like Swatch group to have acquired brands to address niches across the vast spread of the luxury market. The other large luxury conglomerates sure do. Then there's a host of small independents that address all sorts of different niches as well across the range from Tourby to Magrette to De Bethune to RGM and all points in between.

Oh, and Made In Germany is a pretty prestigious claim, not just in watchmaking, Made in Japan, China, Britain all still have some meaning, history and interest for some of us into watches as well - don't be so narrow in your focus is my suggestion.

I'm not saying that you "must" appreciate the same things that I do, but to purely assessing a piece on aesthetics , the name and what the logo looks like in a Vegas boutique is missing out on a LOT!

Sure advertising is everywhere, but the power of the modern world is that you can quickly look beyond the hype.



Thanks for saving me the effort. This pretty much sums it up for me as well.

I did enjoy the OP's post, and agree with some of his opinions on the aesthetics. I also have tried to like IWC, and went so far as researching its history, but nothing resonated with me...

I think that marketing, aside from Rolex (and to lesser, but still significant, degree Omega/tag/Breitling/Cartier etc) is not a major player at the upper echelon of horology.... I don't think I've ever seen an ad for breguet, yet I have one.

This is a case where the watch is so much more than the sum of its parts.
There is a romanticism in the history, and it isn't marketing drivel, or fabrications by an advertising team, there are historical events, legacies of innovation, and amazing artisans involved in the history of the brands that survived centuries.

It doesn't impress you that a brand could be around for 250 years?

The reason that these pieces command the prices they do is because of the emotional component. Luxury items will always transcend practicality because when emotion is involved, the practical mind is often rendered irrelevant.

I think that anyone without an emotional draw towards the watches could pragmatically tear apart any luxury watch brand, and if aesthetics becomes the only criteria, how could any logical mind choose a calatrava when some timex watches look identical.
 
Posts
16,464
Likes
1,515
Having been thinking about how my perspectives of watches brands have evolved as I moved from someone with a causal interest to a more engaged collector. I still believe in the philosophy that u should buy what u like irrespective of the perceived value of brand, even though now I possess a more developed (marketing influenced) understanding of the specifics behind different watch styles and makes.

I got into watches initially indirectly through the interest of a colleague and then had an actual need to purchase a new watch as my old standby Baume Mercier (which I bought on overstock.com for $1K five years ago) needed a new rubber strap. It was a sporty chronometer type piece that also was automatic self-winding. It was serviced once when one of the hands of the chronometer came loose (was using it to time exercise sets on a daily basis) but otherwise it worked well.

I had a conference in Vegas and so this was a perfect opportunity to see what was available. Like 95% of all Americans, I had the generic impression that Rolex was the best. I also knew about Omega because I enjoyed astronomy as a kid and of course everybody knows James Bond wears Omega.

I first looked at the Milguass Rolex with the blue sapphire face; it looked sleek in pictures but in real life was simply to small. Also in comparing to Omega, the anti-magnetic properties were actually quite lackluster. The Submariner in black/steel looked sharp but the cyclops date was a bit odd. The sky-dweller with black face and white gold really caught my attention. I liked the red signal indicator but I began to think the fluted dial would be too blingy and perhaps look dated with time.

Looked at a couple of places that carried Omega, but besides the Darkside of the Moon (this was when there was only a single version--kinda of seems quaint now) nothing really captured my attention. At the Bellagio Omega boutique, they happened to have a single Aventurine Speedmaster (has a moon phase complication) in the display case. Wow that stopped me in my tracks. I knew in that instant that this watch was for me. Did not like the price, but after researching online for about 24 hours before purchasing, I discovered it was uncommon and essentially discontinued. Could not get them to budge on price, but they did give me a bonus stainless steel watch band.

So the Aventurine Speedmaster was it for me for about 9 months. The lack of an auto-wind was a bit of drag, but otherwise it kept good time and the moon display was accurate, although it was somewhat hard to resync if the watch ran down.

Next Vegas trip was soon thereafter and I had decided at this point that I "needed" a dress watch. I do like moon phase complications and hoped to find something that included this; my original thoughts with weak preconceptions and no clear idea of price points:

Phillipe Patek -- they did have many moon phase complications. A lot of the designs looked liked they were designed for the elderly living in the 1800s. Lots of interlocking circles. I thought the Nautilus and Aquanet had a very 70's tv retro shape/vibe even though the salesman told me they were sporty. I did like the 5205 but when the time is on the half hour it looks like jumbled spaghetti display. The watches were expensive. I was surprised when the staff told me many thought it was the best brand in the world.

JLC -- also had moon phase complications. Seemed to be a lower priced version of Patek. Designs very similar. Do get more for your $ in terms of additional complications. Otherwise did not seem distinctive or unique.

IWC -- visceral negative reaction to the name especially after seeing the prices. Reminded me of HSN or QVC. Hard to believe a top tier watch maker would have the generic sounding moniker 'international watch company'. Some of the Big Pilot series had a dual moon phase and blue color face which was quite modern, but the size of the watch was pushing it. A lot of the other designs reminded me of Patek.

Arnold & Son. If u want the cartoon literal moon phase complication interpretation and maybe do not care about knowing what time it is. Stylistically a complete no go for me.

Audemars Piguet -- no moon phase display; that being said, I did like the Royal Oak Offshore with a black face; expensive even in the stainless steel version.

Hubulot -- I liked the entry Classic Fusion with black face and stainless steel. It seemed to me to be a cheaper version of the AP Royal Oak with many shared stylistic features. There were also many other versions that looked schizophrenic.

Richard Mille -- ok from the window I knew there was not a chance in hell they would have a watch with a moon phase. I also did not expect that many of these watches that look like they were assembled with junkyard parts run around 100k.

Lange -- now this was a surprise. Smaller boutique store located in the Wynn shopping area. Carried multiple models with moon phases complications but the design aesthetic was more clean. A bit wigged out that the watches were German and not Swiss made. Price was quite demoralizing especially for the Lange 1 Grand Moonphase which I liked the best.

Breguet -- two different experiences. The boutique in the Bellagio had a very Marie Antoinnette feel and I felt a bit out of place in my gap T-shirt and Target cargo shorts initially. The sales staff however was excellent in introducing me to the brand and gave me a cool coffee table type book. Many of the designs were quite formal and the moon phase complications were similar to Patek, although the engraving of the face was more complex and in general had a lighter feel. I do think it helped a bit when I told them I was interested in Lange watches in terms of them paying attention to me. You would never in a million years think that Swatch owns both Omega and Breguet. Had a more relaxed experience at the Wynn Watchstore which has many Breguet models; the salesperson introduced me to the marine line and although no moon phase, it is a great a mix of sporty and elegant, although I would later learn to some brand purists that this was basically blasphemy. Again the price was unfortunate to say the least of the 5823 model that I liked.

Glashutte -- very Lange like but simpler and less expensive. I kinda think it parallels JLC for German style watches.

Panerai -- simple designs; elementary school fonts; very big sizes. Overall did nothing for me.

Ulysee Nardin -- massive naval themes on steroids. I really did not understand the point. Does not seem in any way relevant and I have no idea who would want to buy these watches.

Gigard Perregaux -- large selection at the Aria. Liked the traveler large date moon phase; the moon phase complication design is very similar to the one featured on the new Omega Speedmaster. It was interesting that this was the first watch that I really liked, but after seeing everything else did not feel the price was justified after comparing to other brands. Shows the effect of anchoring in driving relative comparisons between products.

Bottomline:

Brands are more often a function of a predetermined business price point than distinctiveness or technical innovation, although marketing and media messengers will attempt to convince you otherwise.

Getting discounts at boutique stores is difficult (near impossible) for a first time buyer to the brand. Look to trusted sellers or a flexible AD to get what u want at the best price.

There is a built momentum in so-called popular brands that is very much self reinforcing; accordingly your preferences will not be derived in a vacuum. I do believe u will be the most satisfied if u buy (at a good price) what u like and let others quibble about which brand is the best or most prestigious. If you intend to resell a watch, then knowing what is the 'right' choice is very important, but in general watches are not a great investment and there are certainly demand bubbles that can crash a brand. Over the long term, some of these brands may not be viable given the degree of stylistic overlap and subsequent cannibalization of overall the market by smart watches, so again buy what u truly like and not what u think u are expected to like.

Interesting observations. Right now I have an affinity for IWC, Omega, Rolex, Patek, Lange & JLC. I could live with those houses for the rest of my life 馃榾
 
Posts
2,510
Likes
3,729
If you want a moonphase you would do well to look at the Ochs und Junior, probably the most accurate Moonphase complication currently in production. It will predict the moon phase correctly for 3,478.27 years before it is off by 1 day.

moon-phase-watch-ochs-und-junior-blue-patina-39mm-1_RGB-3198px-1-narrow.jpeg.jpg

Production limited to 50 per year. Ordering at the factory is done via a face to face meeting with the owner of the company to work out the specifics of the watch to be produced.

What is amazing to me about Ochs & Junior is how amazingly affordable they are compared to other boutique haute horology brands. A fully decked out one with a solid silver case, platinum moon, etc - fully customized in whatever dial/hand etc colors you want - is still under 11,000 CHF.
 
Posts
2,510
Likes
3,729
xcept Invicta....

I can't stand Invicta, for the most part. But their 8926 is probably the best "beater" watch I have. Rock solid Miyota movement (they now have a decent Seiko that hacks and hand-winds) decent looks (if you like the submariner), and really only one glaring fault which is the god-awful engraving on the side of the case. If it didn't have that, I would recommend them all day long, since there really is no better option at $80 new for an automatic watch. The case and bracelet are both much better than a Seiko 5, and the movement is better too. Just that stupid engraving....

I bought mine at a thrift store for $10. The crystal is scratched all to hell on it, but I slap it on when I'm going to be doing yardwork, or moving stuff, etc. I don't care if I bang it around, scratch it, etc. I popped the stupid cyclops off of it with a butane torch.
 
Posts
8,198
Likes
19,328
I'll nominate this thread for the Hijack of the Year Award! it started discussing high end watches, rolled down the hill and ended talking Invicta! 馃槖