We are a long, long way away from the days of the vaunted trinity of PP, AP and VC being at the top of the heap of Swiss watchmaking. They basically run on historical fumes.....'they were great in the past so they are great now'. These lists and pyramids mean nothing....they are mostly nonsense.
We are a long, long way away from the days of the vaunted trinity of PP, AP and VC being at the top of the heap of Swiss watchmaking. They basically run on historical fumes.....'they were great in the past so they are great now'. These lists and pyramids mean nothing....they are mostly nonsense.
Agree. I look at a standard issue PP movement—a 315 or 324—what you’ll get in a watch that sells in the low to mid 20s preowned; compare that to what you can get in a comparably priced Lange. It’s not even in the same ballpark. Granted, Lange doesn’t make its own cases (right?), and doesn’t have the storied history or exalted clientele that Patek does. But I’d venture to say that Lange is generally producing better un- or modestly-complicated dress watches than Patek.
This topic seems to surface inside some other threads.
So let me as well try a ranking of Swiss watch brands from my point of view:
I am in the watch collection scene about 40 years and have visited the workshops and archives of many Swiss watch manufacturers. I saw brands disapearing and rebirthing like Blancpain, were I was in the original factory in Villeret, same with Minerva, Cortebert, Ulysse Nardin, Guinand aso.
So my view on brand ranking is based on a very historic way, not at all interested in todays numbers, revenues and second hand values.
And here I do not count the fashion labels like Chanel, Cartier... nor the new brands like Panerai, Montblanc, Hublot, Chopard...
(And sorry, I surely miss some remarcable brands.)
Let me try:
- upper upper class:
Patek Philippe, Lange & Söhne, Breguet, F.P. Journe
- middle upper class:
Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron & Constantin, Audemar-Piguet
...
upper middle class:
Rolex, Omega, IWC...
middle middle class:
Breitling, Heuer, Longines, Zenith, Movado, Ebel, Blancpain, Beaume & Mercier. Girard-Perregaux, Eberhard, Beaume & Mercier, Universal Geneve...
- lower middle class:
Doxa, Certina, Tissot, Rado, Mido, Tudor, Eterna, Zodiac, Angelus, Helvetia...
- lower class:
Oris, Nivada, Fortis...
Its my very individual view, not knowing most of the the actual models, wether they obey todays high grade watch making standards or craftmansship.
Most of these brands are not individual manufacturers as they are part of a luxury goods corporation like Swatch, Richemont, LVMH a.s.o. were they share techniques and service infrastructure.
To name two antipodes: Rolex is on its own and they are optimizing industrial mass production, while e.g. Lange & Söhne watches are to a great part handmade with individual high grade movement functions in small batches.
Gruß Konrad
(The att. pyramid seem only to count second hand values.)
Just how out-dated is this pyramid?
They basically run on historical fumes.....'they were great in the past so they are great now'.
So my view on brand ranking is based on a very historic way, not at all interested in todays numbers, revenues and second hand values.
…. not knowing most of the the actual models, wether they obey todays high grade watch making standards or craftmansship.]
Sure, just don’t take it out on the OP when he’s talking about something else altogether.
fair enough.
I'm of the firm view that dimetrodon is the most successful Predator ever to have evolved... as long as we ignore all the predators that evolved after it.
I am not trying to attack the OP but I question the value of such an assertion.
I had to question what is a dimetrodon as well. 😁
If we’re comparing manufacturers by looking at what you get for what you pay, JLC, Omega, Longines and Tissot all do well on my list.
JLC prices are just plain stupid now. They make solid watches but the value proposition is long gone at anything close to their retail price. A simple steel Reverso is over US$10k, the simplest Atmos clock is US$11k, the simplest Master Control Date is almost US$10k, a steel perpetual calendar is US$28.5k. There are better values elsewhere now.
JLC prices are just plain stupid now. They make solid watches but the value proposition is long gone at anything close to their retail price. A simple steel Reverso is over US$10k, the simplest Atmos clock is US$11k, the simplest Master Control Date is almost US$10k. There are better values elsewhere now.
Assuming, of course, that you pay retail. The same can be said of Omega. I purchased my JLC Master Ultra Thin Moon in steel a few years ago on the grey market for 7.7 USD, full kit and unworn, with the 8 year JLC warranty. I purchased my Atmos clock from an estate sale for $600 in like new condition. I’ve never paid retail for a watch.
That's impressive.
Assuming, of course, that you pay retail. The same can be said of Omega. I purchased my JLC Master Ultra Thin Moon in steel a few years ago on the grey market for 7.7 USD, full kit and unworn, with the 8 year JLC warranty. I purchased my Atmos clock from an estate sale for $600 in like new condition. I’ve never paid retail for a watch or a clock.
That's a fair point, but with their retail prices ratcheting upward, the Master Ultra Thin Moon is now US$11.9k so you probably wouldn't get it for the same price you paid. I have you beat on an Atmos clock, my newbie wife bought me an Atmos clock for Christmas 1973 for $125 new from a jewelry store in Sturgis, South Dakota. It had been in their stock for a few years but the list price was $125. It is still using the original bellows scratch marked May 1963 from the factory. Had it overahauled three times since I've owned it, the last time in 2018. And it's generally recognized that the movements from that era are superior to the current ones.
