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Giovannii
·Nice Connie ! Congrats and make sure to treat your watchmaker properly ! It is worth a lot nowadays to have a trustworthy one.
Vintage Constellations. Show and tell
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samweldspoorly
·A MEISTER signed 14393 18k pie pan connie with just the perfect amount of patina I gifted my mom for her birthday.
A series of her reacts are posted <here>
A series of her reacts are posted <here>
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samweldspoorly
·an upclose of that beautiful patina. <swoon>
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Zapatta
·
For some reason 14381/393 are known for the bubbles on the dial. Here is mine 😀
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samweldspoorly
·For some reason 14381/393 are known for the bubbles on the dial. Here is mine 😀
To anyone who thinks this is nonsense. Check out the hydrogen degassing from this welds that was welded with a cellulose fluxed 6010 electrode vs a low-hydrogen 7018 electrode:
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Giovannii
·The bubbles are fun. Not many people in this community probably know the cause of this specific dial defect. Its a paint defect called an "eruption" and its caused by the dial base metal "outgassing" under the laquer or paint layer. Most people think metals are solid but they are closer to a rigid sponge. Molecules of nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen etc can get trapped inbetween the grains of the metal like disolving suger into hot water. Over time, these gasses will "come out of solution" so to say and if there is a layer of paint blocking that degassing, it will become trapped and form a little bubble under the paint layer. If the laquer is still soft, it will bubble and remain. If the laquer is too hard, the bubble will crack. I would venture to guess vintage watches stored in warmer climates will exhibit more bubbles and watches stored in colder climates will exhibit more cracked bubbles.
To anyone who thinks this is nonsense. Check out the hydrogen degassing from this welds that was welded with a cellulose fluxed 6010 electrode vs a low-hydrogen 7018 electrode:
I’ll post some examples that I found on google and from this forum, hope that’s okey.
Do you or anyone else have an explanation for this? Radium lume chemical reaction? Different manufacturer during this period?
/Johan
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RoadRunner73
·Hydrogen diffusion is a known defect in steel making, and a true nightmare for steel producers ; which is why a "degassing" step is often required just before the steel becomes solid. A popular degassing is processed by means of "argon bubbling", means injection of argon gas in the bottom part of the steel melter some time before pouring the liquid steel in the mould.
So I am not surprised by this.
A possible reason to explain why this would have affected some earlier production is that one became aware of the problem at some point, and corrected it by modifying the chemical composition of the next steel productions.
So I am not surprised by this.
A possible reason to explain why this would have affected some earlier production is that one became aware of the problem at some point, and corrected it by modifying the chemical composition of the next steel productions.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerHydrogen diffusion is a known defect in steel making, and a true nightmare for steel producers ; which is why a "degassing" step is often required just before the steel becomes solid. A popular degassing is processed by means of "argon bubbling", means injection of argon gas in the bottom part of the steel melter some time before pouring the liquid steel in the mould.
So I am not surprised by this.
A possible reason to explain why this would have affected some earlier production is that one became aware of the problem at some point, and corrected it by modifying the chemical composition of the next steel productions.
Dials are not steel. Brass is the most common material.
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samweldspoorly
·Chocolate chip vs oatmeal raisin. Same issues. (they make me fat)
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samweldspoorly
·Very interesting! I’ve noted something else regarding ref 14381/393 and the way the patina seems to affect the text and crosshairs on the dials. I’ve seen this on various examples when the dials have ”patinated” (i don’t know the word for it) in the same kind of way. The lettering and crosshairs can be seen more clearly, almost fatter and darker. Obviously it can be mistaken for a redial, but I have found a bit too many examples for this to be a coincidence (or redials). The very first picture in this thread on page one kind of have this characteristics, mine as well.
/Johan
Cant speak to the darker texts. But my best guess on the lovely crème brûlée dials from this period is LIKELY a combination of radium lume, the oils used at the time, AND the laquer paint itself. Maybe a combination of all three. It is my opinion that the conventional lubricants used at the time would degrade, become an air-oil mist/vapor and migrate throughout the watch under normal operating conditions. Then, allowed to sit for long-extended durations of time without service, these microscopic oil particles that came to rest on the dials created aging or staining spots. Maybe the radium lume had an impact on this? Maybe the radium darkened these oil spots? Maybe it was more suceptible to happen with this specific laquer? Im not sure anyone knows for sure but thats where I would put my money.
Another note. I wonder if pieces that were worn/run for extended periods of time withOUT services at recommended intervals would have more of this patina as a result from oils drying up in the jewels/pivots and causing microscopic ferrite debriding or iron particles worn from the pivots migrating as FOD to the dial as well. Some of these dials I swear I can see rust spots on. And thats the only likely source/cause for free iron inside of a closed environment.
Cheers 😀
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerChocolate chip vs oatmeal raisin. Same issues. (they make me fat)
Not really the point...
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samweldspoorly
·Not really the point...
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerWhat are trying to illustrate? An eruption is a paint defect caused by outgassing base metal. Most of us know dials are typically made from brass. For eruptions to exist on these brass dials, one should conclude that gasses are outgassing from the brass. Hense there is/was a manufacturing issue with gasses in solution at the raw material manufactured state.
Pretty obvious if you read the last sentence in post I was responding to. Not sure why you are getting defensive, because I never said you were wrong, or even responded to you...
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samweldspoorly
·Pretty obvious if you read the last sentence in post I was responding to. Not sure why you are getting defensive, because I never said you were wrong, or even responded to you...
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNot defensive. Just trying to educate that steel and brass can have the same manufacturing woes of gas entrapment. carry on
Okay...
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MtV
·Didn’t quite know where to share this, but I figure this is a good place.
As I’m sure many of you are aware, the first gen Constellations ref 2648 are larger than all their 50s siblings. 1mm doesn’t sound like much, but since the dial itself is 2mm wider, resulting in a slimmer bezel, their whole appearance changes slightly. It’s less chunky and, to my eyes, more elegant.
With a 2648 and a 2852 in identical configurations here, I thought a comparison picture might be helpful to show the effect of those small differences:
(2852 on the left, 2648 on the right)
As I’m sure many of you are aware, the first gen Constellations ref 2648 are larger than all their 50s siblings. 1mm doesn’t sound like much, but since the dial itself is 2mm wider, resulting in a slimmer bezel, their whole appearance changes slightly. It’s less chunky and, to my eyes, more elegant.
With a 2648 and a 2852 in identical configurations here, I thought a comparison picture might be helpful to show the effect of those small differences:
(2852 on the left, 2648 on the right)
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gbesq
·Both lovely, Matt, but what is that very nice leather item with the gold embossed Omega logo underneath the watches? That must have a story associated with it!
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MtV
·It sounds like you need a full set Connie at some point, Greg. It'll come with such a leather inlet in the original box 😀
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felsby
··I don't see any option in settings or profileDidn’t quite know where to share this, but I figure this is a good place.
As I’m sure many of you are aware, the first gen Constellations ref 2648 are larger than all their 50s siblings. 1mm doesn’t sound like much, but since the dial itself is 2mm wider, resulting in a slimmer bezel, their whole appearance changes slightly. It’s less chunky and, to my eyes, more elegant.
With a 2648 and a 2852 in identical configurations here, I thought a comparison picture might be helpful to show the effect of those small differences:
(2852 on the left, 2648 on the right)
I wholeheartedly agree, Matthias - the 2648 is my absolute connie favourite.
@gbesq: it must be the suede lining of a Constellation box.
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