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Universal Geneve Watches On Ebay

  1. Moahunter

    Moahunter Jul 23, 2017

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    I had noticed that. Would the German navy refuse to buy watches because the cases were made in England?
    .
     
  2. sxl2004

    sxl2004 Jul 23, 2017

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    Would English case makers be allowed to sell to the Kriegsmarine?
     
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  3. Moahunter

    Moahunter Jul 24, 2017

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    Wouldn't Dennison's be selling their cases to the watchmaker not the Kriegsmarine?
     
  4. sxl2004

    sxl2004 Jul 24, 2017

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    Yes, but the KM would only have bought from a German company with tight supervision.
    But really a academic argument since this watch seems to be fake.
     
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  5. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 24, 2017

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    Downright medieval. But you are arguing with a hunter of extinct animals. ;)
     
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  6. Diabolik

    Diabolik Jul 25, 2017

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    Military watches are probably some of the most faked watches on the planet. The reasons are obvious. Two words come to mind "easy money".

    The watch in question does not look right. Dial and movement are correct but that is as far as it goes. I cant see any sense in having a dial with lume and plain hands, so first point is that hands are incorrect. The movement looks like an alpina as mentioned in a previous post and i concur. It seems to be well matched to case. However, i cant see the kreigsmarine purchasing a quantity of watches for use at sea that did not have any sort of waterproofing qualities (pop back case) ...

    A quick search on the world wide brain shows the case below which is what I would expect and ties in with that movement. Note military serial number os back ...

    upload_2017-7-25_10-16-11.png

    The above looks more credible but may have undergone some sort of restoration. so although nice and quite a rare dial and movement, i don't think it is as the kreigsmarine intended and is a bit of a franken.

    As far as the UG connection goes .... nah, movement bear no resemblance to the UG 262
    upload_2017-7-25_10-27-0.png
     
    upload_2017-7-25_10-22-35.png
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  7. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 25, 2017

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    I would suggest that the UG inference has been deduced by the seller from a casual reference to the Ranfft archive; specifically this reference to the Alpina 595 (Universal 262).

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&a&2uswk&Alpina_595

    Looking at Knirim there is an Alpina Kriegsmarine however it is listed with a calibre 586 but Mikrolisk does list Siegerin as an Alpina registered trademark.
    http://www.mikrolisk.de/show.php?si...hMode=exact&searchWhere=trademark#sucheMarker

    Maybe an Alpina 595 is the same movement as a Siegerin 595 but I'd suggest there's some doubt about Ranfft's 262 attribution. If I have a moment I might drop him a note.

    As already pointed out the non-lumed hands and the Dennison caseback (Knirim shows casebacks only from the outside unfortunately - incidentally none of the KM wristwatch models have D----H on the caseback but most do have a number however I have no idea if these are manufacturer's serial numbers of issue marks) clearly points to this as a franken; something all too common everywhere these days but especially with military watches. As to whether the seller is simply deluded, uninformed or is the architect of the piece, I have no idea but their other stuff suggests that they might be innocent of intent.

    Knirim is contactable but the idea of Dennison supplying the Kriegmarine is so farcical I'll leave that task to somebody else. Labouring the point, in my view, can only take us to here:
     
    Edited Jul 25, 2017
  8. LouS

    LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jul 26, 2017

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    They wouldn't. KM=Navy, DH=Army
     
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  9. TexOmega

    TexOmega Jul 26, 2017

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    Alpina and the KM had a relationship.


    Dial.JPG
     
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  10. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 27, 2017

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    Indeed.
     
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  11. Diabolik

    Diabolik Jul 27, 2017

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    quite right ...


    upload_2017-7-27_8-25-23.png

    Case back on the ones i have seen are stamped 330094. I wonder what that stands for.

    always learning !
     
    Edited Jul 27, 2017
  12. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 27, 2017

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    The examples in Knirim (a relatively small sample) seem to indicate different number ranges from different manufacturers (e.g. 3***** for Alpina, 5***** for Zentra). It suggests to me that they are manufacturer's serial numbers rather than any marked by the Kriegsmarine though I note that Knirim does not make this direct inference. Interestingly there is one black-dialled Zentra with Dienstuhr (D---- rather than D----H). Also Knirim states that the Siegerin brand belonged to Marc Favre Biel which seems to contradict the Mikrolisk entry I mentioned earlier (my money is still on Mikrolisk).
     
  13. sxl2004

    sxl2004 Jul 27, 2017

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    These might be contract or requisition numbers. Every manufacture would have their own code. ?
     
  14. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 27, 2017

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    For a moment I thought I'd woken up on MWR :).

    If anybody is looking for this model Unisonic I'd say the case edges are sharper than most.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112497209462?ul_noapp=true
    [​IMG]

    Personally I've never been very much gone on the day-date version of these but YMMV.
     
  15. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Jul 29, 2017

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  16. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 29, 2017

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    I suspect the fact that he doesn't seem to do Paypal (and hence the use of German Ebay where PP is not a pre-requisite) probably scared some of the opposition off. I've no idea whether the €80 shipping is realistic or an attempt to compensate for the likely under-achievement on the auction because of the above.
     
  17. ConElPueblo

    ConElPueblo Jul 29, 2017

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    I have had a "second chance" offer for the above at €460, but I guess that I will pass. I like the dial better than many of the more flat Super dials.
     
  18. Carlton-Browne

    Carlton-Browne Jul 29, 2017

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    That sounds to me like somebody didn't realise that Paypal was not an option (although I see now that it is presented as an option but the seller seems to want a bank transfer in the auction text). I think that it's worth that but not without risk; perhaps Billy Big Balls (who was the chap who bought a chrono from Latin America under somewhat trying circumstances?) should have a pop.
     
  19. aw5588

    aw5588 Jul 29, 2017

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  20. Larry S

    Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Jul 29, 2017

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    I like the watch but it needs correct hands. I love the case and dial too.
     
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