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UG Polerouter Sub for sale @ Hodinkee

Diabolik
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redpcar redpcar
@Bill Sohne OK, full disclosure, there was bourbon involved in the deception declaration. You are correct "deception" is too strong. Intentionally omitted? You know they can see the issue. They intentionally did not address it because it is obvious? The rub is that it is obvious to an educated buyer. Not sure if they think the bracelet ads value. No value would end this whole rant that I apparently have started. Think if correct, it would be a $1K adder? $1.5K? Hodinkee should address this in their listing or put it on a leather strap and sell the bracelet separate.


930104-05541e469a81a5b663bda8e12ce4edfe.jpg


I personally think that if they can address minor cracks in the minute hand lume (which I couldn't see), differences in lume patina from hands to the dial, and damage (err patina) to the date wheel in their "Nitty Gritty" section, they could mention the crunch function from the end links to the bracelet.

I'm not a buyer for this piece, either. Beautiful watch, though.

To summarize:
1. Changed "deceptive" to "intentionally omitted".
2. Wrong end links.
3. Beautiful watch.

Enough said. Back to drinking.

There is also the issue of the serial number ... It does not look right at all ... and reference looks a bit weird as well !


upload_2020-2-17_23-33-35.png
 
upload_2020-2-17_23-33-35.png
MoclovFlop
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Diabolik Diabolik
There is also the issue of the serial number ... It does not look right at all ... and reference looks a bit weird as well !


upload_2020-2-17_23-33-35.png

Super Weird, no two "6"'s are the same. Definitely hand done.
 
Bill Sohne
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Diabolik Diabolik
There is also the issue of the serial number ... It does not look right at all ... and reference looks a bit weird as well !


upload_2020-2-17_23-33-35.png


Hi @Diabolik

Ok , if your concerned about them ... please email and ask the seller.....


Just an FYI ... please read below.... ( copy of my previous post .).

“Hi guys
@@MJKauz I did not mean to put you on the spot ....
please accept my apology.

I will also reach out .... but I am not sure that this is the right venue for response from them .... ( I really don’t want to moderate that possible thread ).

I would also suggest anyone that is interested in the watch send a email / message to them asking about your concerns with the bracelet , ends , sn marking etc ...

Good hunting

bill”


Just to be clear .....

“I would also suggest anyone that is interested in the watch send a email / message to them asking about your concerns with the bracelet , ends , sn marking etc ... ”

I did not forget about the sn markings on the caseback.

Once again it was brought up , you want to make sure we don’t forget it.. heck please email the seller and ask..

Remember redundancy is key...... ( at lest for computer backups)...

Good Hunting

Bill
 
Dan S
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I wonder if someone tried to restore those engraved numbers by hand to make them legible after overpolishing the back to remove deep scratches. Just speculation, of course, and no way to verify it unless the owner has knowledge of it.
 
aprax
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Dan S Dan S
I wonder if someone tried to restore those engraved numbers by hand to make them legible after overpolishing the back to remove deep scratches. Just speculation, of course, and no way to verify it unless the owner has knowledge of it.

If they did try to make them legible their efforts seem to have failed miserably, either with Hodinkee or with me. From the photo of the case back I am reading 2 668 665. Here's what Hodinkee have written:

Anmerkung 2020-02-18 014240.jpg
 
Diabolik
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aprax aprax
If they did try to make them legible their efforts seem to have failed miserably, either with Hodinkee or with me. From the photo of the case back I am reading 2 668 665. Here's what Hodinkee have written:

Anmerkung 2020-02-18 014240.jpg

So we have a Polerouter Sub which is an expensive watch, being sold by a very reputable dealer with the following issues that were missed ...

1. Reference number inconsistent on case back (inside and outside)
2. Serial number inconsistent
3. End links wrong

I would be concerned that there could be other issues that have not been declared.

However, the million dollar question. Is it likely that the above mentioned Issues that were missed by the experts ? Possibly, which means that the onus is on the buyer to question and complete a thorough due diligence before parting with any cash !
 
jumpingsecond
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Diabolik Diabolik
So we have a Polerouter Sub which is an expensive watch, being sold by a very reputable dealer with the following issues that were missed ...

1. Reference number inconsistent on case back (inside and outside)
2. Serial number inconsistent
3. End links wrong

I would be concerned that there could be other issues that have not been declared.

However, the million dollar question. Is it likely that the above mentioned Issues that were missed by the experts ? Possibly, which means that the onus is on the buyer to question and complete a thorough due diligence before parting with any cash !

Always the case with Hodinkee and any seller really - which is the original point of this whole thread: Caveat Emptor.
 
JwRosenthal
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Does anyone here have one of these with the same bracelet- and correct endlinks for comparison of the fit & numbers on the back?
 
ELV web
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Bill Sohne Bill Sohne
Hi @Diabolik

Ok , if your concerned about them ... please email and ask the seller.....


Just an FYI ... please read below.... ( copy of my previous post .).

“Hi guys
@@MJKauz I did not mean to put you on the spot ....
please accept my apology.

I will also reach out .... but I am not sure that this is the right venue for response from them .... ( I really don’t want to moderate that possible thread ).

I would also suggest anyone that is interested in the watch send a email / message to them asking about your concerns with the bracelet , ends , sn marking etc ...

Good hunting

bill”


Just to be clear .....

“I would also suggest anyone that is interested in the watch send a email / message to them asking about your concerns with the bracelet , ends , sn marking etc ... ”

I did not forget about the sn markings on the caseback.

Once again it was brought up , you want to make sure we don’t forget it.. heck please email the seller and ask..

Remember redundancy is key...... ( at lest for computer backups)...

Good Hunting

Bill
What is the point of having this forum to discuss watches then. I think pointing out flaws is fine (as Long as you are not making malicious assumptions regarding seller’s intention). Forum members benefit from these to-the-point analysis of the flaws.
 
Bill Sohne
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ELV web ELV web
What is the point of having this forum to discuss watches then. I think pointing out flaws is fine (as Long as you are not making malicious assumptions regarding seller’s intention). Forum members benefit from these to-the-point analysis of the flaws.

Hi @ELV web

That is the point. The list of issues was made commented and we can continue to comment . People questioned the sellers intent ( which crossed the line for me ). Then people keep Re upping the list and questioning the seller again , all I suggested that if anyone is interested in the watch and or concerned of the sellers intent.. email the seller and let’s see what they have to say....

just recirculating same questions and stating the same opinions of what the sellers intent...... gets us nowhere.

good hunting

bill
 
Diabolik
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I dont have an 869120/02 but here are two others. The font or style did not change in the 60's so it gives us an idea of what it should look like. Pretty clean and well aligned without the mixed space and other irregularities we see on the hodinkee sub!

869109/01
upload_2020-2-18_12-44-48.png


A very rare 20366/1
upload_2020-2-18_12-45-51.png


BTW, i could not give a donut who the seller is and I am not questioning reputations or bitching about a seller. I merely state the facts ... I would not be considering a watch like that. I am pretty strict about what is acceptable (to me) and what is not. If asked for an opinion, i stick to my bar which is set pretty high.
 
Bill Sohne
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Diabolik Diabolik
I dont have an 869120/02 but here are two others. The font or style did not change in the 60's so it gives us an idea of what it should look like. Pretty clean and well aligned without the mixed space and other irregularities we see on the hodinkee sub!

869109/01
upload_2020-2-18_12-44-48.png


A very rare 20366/1
upload_2020-2-18_12-45-51.png


BTW, i could not give a donut who the seller is and I am not questioning reputations or bitching about a seller. I merely state the facts ... I would not be considering a watch like that. I am pretty strict about what is acceptable (to me) and what is not. If asked for an opinion, i stick to my bar which is set pretty high.


Hi @Diabolik

thank you for all your time and effort.

great post and on topic.......

best regards

bill
 
bristnj
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Correct 20mm end-links would be "UM" for these Subs, and generally on a GF bracelet. The USA Champion bracelet with 20mm 55's wont fit, curvature is incorrect. Also, the USA Champion is not a double-grain like the GF is. Would be interesting to see the deployment on this and see how its marked.

There was also "U" marked end-links that fit, but typically these are from a bit earlier GF bracelet - '66 range vs. '68/'69 of most of the Subs. These Subs (asymmetric cases) were available with bakelite bezels that were Black (most common), Red, Blue (bit more rare) and Green (most rare). Personally I find the Red & Blue most appealing.

I believe the "UP" ends are 20mm and are for Polerouter Super. They are found on Tri Compax and Nina/Evil Nina, but have been shaved to fit the 19mm lugs.

*** I've not read thru all the previous posts, so if this info is redundant, my apologies.
 
Bill Sohne
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bristnj bristnj
Correct 20mm end-links would be "UM" for these Subs, and generally on a GF bracelet. The USA Champion bracelet with 20mm 55's wont fit, curvature is incorrect. Also, the USA Champion is not a double-grain like the GF is. Would be interesting to see the deployment on this and see how its marked.

There was also "U" marked end-links that fit, but typically these are from a bit earlier GF bracelet - '66 range vs. '68/'69 of most of the Subs. These Subs (asymmetric cases) were available with bakelite bezels that were Black (most common), Red, Blue (bit more rare) and Green (most rare). Personally I find the Red & Blue most appealing.

I believe the "UP" ends are 20mm and are for Polerouter Super. They are found on Tri Compax and Nina/Evil Nina, but have been shaved to fit the 19mm lugs.

*** I've not read thru all the previous posts, so if this info is redundant, my apologies.


Cool I have a super w a bracelet need to pull it out and check it !

Best
Bill
 
Lucasssssss
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9-Omega-546x1024.png

Similar thing going on with a big name dealer in the above photo. I don't particularly like the look of those end links.
 
dsacks30
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CafeRacer CafeRacer
https://www.ebay.com/itm/283883737157
The same Sub now appears on the bay...
Is it just me, or do the serial and reference numbers appear even more obscured / jacked up in the eBay listing than they did in the Hodinkee photos? Could also be a product of camera quality, but honestly with the eBay image it is hard to even read the numbers.

AF66DE84-A567-4C4E-AF87-19F6AAB01B20.jpeg
 
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CafeRacer
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I have a feeling the numbers are actually OK - just a heavily worn and polished caseback.
Whatever HEAVY editing hodinkee did on their photos made them look wonky due to the unevenness of the lines on the caseback.
 
eugeneandresson
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CafeRacer CafeRacer
I have a feeling the numbers are actually OK - just a heavily worn and polished caseback.
Whatever HEAVY editing hodinkee did on their photos made them look wonky due to the unevenness of the lines on the caseback.

most probably overexposure in the white box with zero reflections...watches always look worst in those than in reality imho.
 
JwRosenthal
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eugeneandresson eugeneandresson
most probably overexposure in the white box with zero reflections...watches always look worst in those than in reality imho.
Agreed- sometimes a “document” is not as attractive as a well composed and well lit “photograph”...very different purposes.
 
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