UG Polerouter Sub for sale @ Hodinkee

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Hey Syrte, thats pretty cool of you to have met the previous owner of the watch!

Nope, I haven't contacted Hodinkee regarding the watch. I guess, I'm not keen enough to verify it; only for OF to vet it.
 
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@sdre if you’re not keen enough about it, why then trigger a discussion which may end up spreading acid and negativity, and perhaps unfairly impact the current owner of the watch?
(PS I don’t know who that is by the way, although I have my suspicions about it).
 
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in other walks of life it’s now well known the quest for perfection is not only inefficient, it’s counterproductive— and a pain in the rear for other human beings you interact with.

As in parenting or relationships, the standard should be »pretty damn good », or «good enough».

smart words those.
 
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@sdre if you’re not keen enough about it, why then trigger a discussion which may end up spreading acid and negativity, and perhaps unfairly impact the current owner of the watch?
(PS I don’t know who that is by the way, although I have my suspicions about it).
Its a (sub)forum... for discussion... About UG. 😜
It would be quite an empty place otherwise!
 
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Its a (sub)forum... for discussion... About UG. 😜
It would be quite an empty place otherwise!

oh i'm not subscribing to that premise. It seems to be an unfortunate hobby for some to hunt online merely to call out-pick apart watches that are sometimes 50+ years old as if these pieces were supposed to have been bought new and stored in a drawer rather than be worn as intended, repaired, had worn out parts replaced to remain useful as they were intended. The way some indignantly point out replaced crowns, hands, service dials and (gasp) a previous polishing merely underlines Syrte's viewpoint on perfection. People are too suspicious and too quick to assume there is the intent to deceive.
Sure if one is selling a gilt sub or another must-be-completely-original-to-command-top-dollar watch for an astronomical price then one would expect OCD style deliberation on presented images, but when someone posts any old survivor of a watch, 9 times out of 10 the reaction is going to be negative towards it.
I myself enjoy hunting for watch treasure, buy up box lots of oldies and figure out what to do with them later. Some I keep and wear for fun and some I pass on to other hobbyists. However fun it might be, I'm a bit hesitant to post some oldies for sale here as even though I always price stuff very low, there will be those that are ready to pounce if something doesn't live up to their OCD expectations regardless of price point. Yes ok some small details can be missed or simply not regarded as important by a seller, but to have such a negative adaptation towards anything spotted as not 100% original as produced is way over the top on some collector sites.
 
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@sdre if you’re not keen enough about it, why then trigger a discussion which may end up spreading acid and negativity, and perhaps unfairly impact the current owner of the watch?
(PS I don’t know who that is by the way, although I have my suspicions about it).

I wouldn't criticize @sdre at all for starting this thread, as I am always interested to learn more about collectible references like this, and there has been valuable discussion about bezel colors, bracelets/end-links, etc. The particular UG sub-forum is a haven for geeks to discuss the finest details of watches, only equaled by the discussion of Longines 13zn chronograph dials in the Longines sub-forum. Threads like this are very educational for me, and one of the reasons that I appreciate OF.

Yes, it was unnecessary to get side-tracked into a discussion about the honesty of the dealer. Somebody made a critical comment after initially providing an excellent photo illustrating the mis-fit endlinks, but I think it would have been easy just to let that comment pass by and continue to discuss the watch/reference. However, someone else decided to defend the seller, and just wouldn't let it drop, insisting on the last word even after he had made his point many times. That was the main source of the distraction IMO, but it's the nature of the internet, and everyone has a day like that now and then.
Edited:
 
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oh i'm not subscribing to that premise. It seems to be an unfortunate hobby for some to hunt online merely to call out-pick apart watches that are sometimes 50+ years old as if these pieces were supposed to have been bought new and stored in a drawer rather than be worn as intended, repaired, had worn out parts replaced to remain useful as they were intended. The way some indignantly point out replaced crowns, hands, service dials and (gasp) a previous polishing merely underlines Syrte's viewpoint on perfection. People are too suspicious and too quick to assume there is the intent to deceive.

I don't see anything wrong with picking apart a watch even though you have no interest in it.
This is how we discuss and learn at all stages of collecting.
It's how new collectors can "catch up", old collectors learn new things, and old discussions and "truths" are assessed criticically with new information.

I also dont think there is anything wrong per se about a watch with replaced parts on it.
Though it should be up to the buyer what they are happy to compromise on - not the seller.
The important thing is that the information is there for them to choose, and one of the best places to store that is in open, objective, forum discussions.

Insinuating any deception without evidence is a whole other matter, and certainly should not be encouraged...
There seems to be a debate about accountability of watch sellers and dealers, online or offline, as to how correct the information is that they supply. My opinion is that its a grey area, but when you are doing it professionally you should be held partially accountable even if you are selling on consignment. Otherwise, you offer absolutely nothing over eBay...
 
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Yes, it was unnecessary to get side-tracked into a discussed about the honesty of the dealer. Somebody made a critical comment, but I think it would have been easy just to let that comment pass by and continue to discuss the watch/reference. However, someone else decided to defend the seller, and just wouldn't let it drop, insisting on the last word even after he had made his point many times. That was a distraction, but it's the nature of the internet, and everyone has a day like that now and then.

Dan I partially agree with you. However even though I'm not a fan of hodinkee I am capable of looking at a watch and letting it talk rather than be too distracted by it's seller and description. The UG in this thread is a fine looking piece that appears to have been repaired bracelet-wise. Loads of pics as well. It's an old watch and it is what it is. doesn't appear anyone was trying to hide it's condition or components. I'm not so sure I would regard efforts in this thread to necessarily defend the seller as much as it seems to be defending the watch. I have also been handling watches for a long time and finding perfection should be regarded as a rarity not an expectation.
 
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Hi Everyone....
@dan02 Said it well.....

I agree w @Dan S .... this is a place to talk watches, analyze a watch , bracelet etc.... to the Nth degree....

But this is not a place to try to read the minds of a seller and publish the dealers intent to deceive etc... I am not DEFENDING any one seller. This adds NO value to a watch discussion in my opinion.

Accountability with a sale of a watch ..... that is a topic I dot even know how to handle.. Ebay seller you have limited recourse.. .the higher up dealers have return policies of one flavor or another.. If something is not right months or years later? that might be know or not known by the seller ... this is something to think about....

Good Hunting

Bill Sohne
 
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Wow. Is the orange insert original?
Wow. Is the orange insert original?

Yes (AFAIK). Not a common reference so faking a piece like that would not seem to make any sense. And the watch came from a very reliable source and was vetted by a very knowledgeable collector.
 
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As far as I am involved in this conversation- my issue isn’t with the watch at all, it’s an honest watch that had the bracelet repaired at some point. My issue was with the lack of written disclosure by a dealer of this caliber. Yes, the pictures were illustrative- but to an untrained eye- the endlinks would have been easy to overlook. The whole reason to purchase from a dealer like Hodinkee is that there is an assumption of trust in their “vetting”. A simple line of disclosure “the bracelet has been repaired at some point” would have been all that was needed. As I said before, the level of scrutiny they show with other watches to the most minute detail goes counter to missing something as visually obvious as this- hence why I feel not disclosing it may have been an intentional omission rather than a deception (although one could argue they are of a similar intent).
 
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Yes (AFAIK). Not a common reference so faking a piece like that would not seem to make any sense. And the watch came from a very reliable source and was vetted by a very knowledgeable collector.
Really cool. Congrats
 
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hence why I feel not disclosing it may have been an intentional omission rather than a deception (although one could argue they are of a similar intent).

I get what you're saying jay dubbya but I can't imagine the lack of mention to have been intentional. I suspect the close-up pics of the head link to bracelet connection was probably what was intentional. you know sorta like let the pics speak for themselves. While a lot of us are really into bracelets, could be Hodinkee or the current owner of the watch merely regards them as ancillary optional components?
 
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It is not just the bracelet ... thew serial number is well dodgy!
 
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@sdre if you’re not keen enough about it, why then trigger a discussion which may end up spreading acid and negativity, and perhaps unfairly impact the current owner of the watch?
(PS I don’t know who that is by the way, although I have my suspicions about it).
Whoa there.

I think I've given enough information in my first post to show that I'm interested. Also Ive owned 2 polerouter subs before; so this has always been an interesting brand/piece to me.

@Syrte I think you are a valuable member of the forum, always adding weighted thoughts and replies with empathy. I'm surprised by this directness by you. Perhaps everyone's having a bad day.

I have nothing more to add to this. If there are people who THINK I'm spreading negativity then i will remove the post and information.

Edited this post so as to ensure clarity.
Edited:
 
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the endlinks would have been easy to overlook.

This says it all..…!!!

Its like the Rolex air king with the "9" at the "3" position.... its hard to spot sometimes.
 
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Whoa there.

I think I've given enough information in my first post to show that I'm interested. Also Ive owned 2 polerouter subs before; so this has always been an interesting brand/piece to me.

@Syrte I think you are a valuable member of the forum, always adding weighted thoughts and replies with empathy. I'm surprised by this directness by you. Perhaps everyone's having a bad day.

I have nothing more to add to this. If there are people who THINK I'm spreading negativity then i will remove the post and information.

Edited this post so as to ensure clarity.

@sdre, It's probably not just about you in my opinion, even if in this case (and maybe in some others too) it applies to you, but more against a bad attitude in general.

People like to criticize watches even (or especially) if they aren't really going to buy those watches.

There is always someone looking for some deception or some malicious scheme, where on the contrary it's normal for a vintage watch to have lived and therefore to have some parts changed.

99% of the 100% period correct watches you see out there had "history-genuine" parts (service, etc) that have been later replaced with period correct parts (but not original to the watch), in the way people like you can get approval on forums, but losing this way all their history, made of course also by service and later replaced parts.
Edited:
 
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@sdre, It's probably not just about you in my opinion, even if in this case (and maybe in some others too) it applies to you, but more against a bad attitude in general.

People like to criticize watches even (or especially) if they aren't really going to buy those watches.

There is always someone looking for some deception or some malicious scheme, where on the contrary it's normal for a vintage watch to have lived and therefore to have some parts changed.

99% of the 100% period correct watches you see out there had "history-genuine" parts (service, etc) that have been later replaced with period correct parts (but not original to the watch), in the way people like you can get approval on forums, but losing this way all their history, made of course also by service and later replaced parts.
Please quote my first post, or where-ever; that i have suggested that Hodinkee has portraying some form of deception or malicious intent in my posts.

Do not put words into my mouth.