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Thoughts on Omega Seamaster 135.011 in Private Sales?
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ConElPueblo
路Well, I just did not see this variation before so I had some (big) doubts. This is also a 135.011 without the 600:
https://www.zeitauktion.com/en/omeg...ug-edelstahl-vintage-von-1964-raritaet-160498
I would stay away but let's throw it into the open.
So is this one from our friend in Austria:
https://www.vintage-portfolio.com/en/shop/seamaster/serviced-omega-seamaster-black-dial/
He does have the manners to point out that it has been refinished, though.
Preposterous.
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Rochete
路Well, I just did not see this variation before so I had some (big) doubts. This is also a 135.011 without the 600:
https://www.zeitauktion.com/en/omeg...ug-edelstahl-vintage-von-1964-raritaet-160498
I would stay away but let's throw it into the open.
I don't know if original but at least lume dots on the right places and no paint creeping up markers.
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ConElPueblo
路I don't know if original but at least lume dots on the right places and no paint creeping up markers.
However, they are the wrong size and the dial (which is a fantasy redial) has no Ts. Funnily enough the opposite of the issue with the Seamaster in the OP. A true example of two wrongs not making a right 馃榾
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S.H.
路I found two curious examples on the net of the 135.011:
http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/OMEWFJCSSFull.html
http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/OMESEA600GENSSNDVNFull.html
One without any script but with seamaster back (easy to put together), one with both geneve and seamaster 600 on the dial.
http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/OMEWFJCSSFull.html
http://www.omegaenthusiast.com/OMESEA600GENSSNDVNFull.html
One without any script but with seamaster back (easy to put together), one with both geneve and seamaster 600 on the dial.
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Pjotr1
路However, they are the wrong size and the dial (which is a fantasy redial) has no Ts. Funnily enough the opposite of the issue with the Seamaster in the OP. A true example of two wrongs not making a right 馃榾
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Dan S
路The point(s) I made in the original thread have already been made here, but I agree that the dial is suspicious. I understand that there are many variations, but the absence of lume on the T SWISS MADE T dial is particularly glaring, on top of the other concerns. It also troubled me that the seller tried to deflect these plausible concerns by first showing an irrelevant redialed watch with the opposite situation (lume dots on a dial without T's, which is a well-known variation), and then showing misprints on paper currency.
I also don't understand the apparent change in policy regarding discussions of watches in sales threads. In fact, a moderator was himself involved in a fairly extensive discussion recently. The rules indicate that values should not be discussed in the thread and that deals should be consummated by PM, but they explicitly say that the watch can otherwise be discussed openly. However, the moderator's comment in that thread suggests that non-sales inquiries cannot be posted. Since sales inquiries also cannot be posted, I guess these threads are really no longer open for posting at all. I'm not trying to make trouble, but I would appreciate some clarity on this. And I would say that I really like the self-policing aspect of this forum, so I hope that comments will not be banned in sales threads.
I also don't understand the apparent change in policy regarding discussions of watches in sales threads. In fact, a moderator was himself involved in a fairly extensive discussion recently. The rules indicate that values should not be discussed in the thread and that deals should be consummated by PM, but they explicitly say that the watch can otherwise be discussed openly. However, the moderator's comment in that thread suggests that non-sales inquiries cannot be posted. Since sales inquiries also cannot be posted, I guess these threads are really no longer open for posting at all. I'm not trying to make trouble, but I would appreciate some clarity on this. And I would say that I really like the self-policing aspect of this forum, so I hope that comments will not be banned in sales threads.
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GordonL
路And an education for me as well. I also saw it and thought it looked lovely but then spotted the lack of lume and rising paint on the markers.
As I said, a real education. Thank you all, and especially @ConElPueblo
As I said, a real education. Thank you all, and especially @ConElPueblo
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kov
路I don鈥檛 see why one couldn鈥檛 start a Thread to discuss a watch offered for sale here, especially if one asks himself "Am I playing the man or playing the ball?" before posting, like @dsio recently suggested in another thread.
We discuss watches and parts sold elsewhere all day long so we should be able to discuss any sales offer listed here, between gentlemen, isn鈥檛 it?
We discuss watches and parts sold elsewhere all day long so we should be able to discuss any sales offer listed here, between gentlemen, isn鈥檛 it?
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Shabbaz
路I don鈥檛 see why one couldn鈥檛 start a Thread to discuss a watch offered for sale here, especially if one asks himself "Am I playing the man or playing the ball?" before posting, like @dsio recently suggested in another thread.
We discuss watches and parts sold elsewhere all day long so we should be able to discuss any sales offer listed here, between gentlemen, isn鈥檛 it?
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Dan S
路I don鈥檛 see why one couldn鈥檛 start a Thread to discuss a watch offered for sale here, especially if one asks himself "Am I playing the man or playing the ball?" before posting, like @dsio recently suggested in another thread.
We discuss watches and parts sold elsewhere all day long so we should be able to discuss any sales offer listed here, between gentlemen, isn鈥檛 it?
Yes, but it seems a bit cumbersome and inefficient to do it this way, and maybe unecessarily adversarial, since in most cases the comments would be resolved quickly with a correction or clarification. Personally, as a seller, I would prefer someone to comment directly in my sales thread if they have a concern. I'd like to address it and get everything clarified right there in the thread. If someone is selling crap, and/or won't disclose issues, then the watch needs to be called out right there in the thread. We often refer newbies to the Private Sales Forum, so it's important to protect its integrity. I guess the moderators could handle this whole process, but then they would be put in the position of deciding which comments to allow or not allow on a case-by-case basis, which seems a lot to ask of them.
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GordonL
路Could we maybe hear the moderator's view? @cicindela?
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ConElPueblo
路I don鈥檛 see why one couldn鈥檛 start a Thread to discuss a watch offered for sale here, especially if one asks himself "Am I playing the man or playing the ball?" before posting, like @dsio recently suggested in another thread.
We discuss watches and parts sold elsewhere all day long so we should be able to discuss any sales offer listed here, between gentlemen, isn鈥檛 it?
Since we are discussing the Sales Forum rules and how these are upheld, my view is that while we certainly could have the discussions in the other subfora, the issue is that items often get sold very fast here and often to new members who doesn't - for one reason or the other - trawl through the relevant fora for research. Still, old members recommend the new ones to go to the Private Sales for some deals from trusted sellers...
When discussion was allowed on FS posts, anyone could comment with reservations and questions which is in the buyer's favor. He or she would get the imminent reaction from the other members, be it "likes" or comments, but with the current regulation the Sales forum is the Wild West. Or at least in the seller's favour. It is free to post there, moderation is not done regarding content or wording, but only for the prevention of scamming and fraud and there are extremely few rules for posting. The public voice? Gone.
I feel that by disallowing members to openly comment on sales posts, a great asset of Omegaforums is wasted. Instead, we offer a cheap alternative to other sales sites. I am aware that moderators for the Sales fora aren't exactly hanging on the trees and I acknowledge the work being done, but surely only people with ill intent benefit from the current regulation?
Now, I am a frequent user of the Sales forum here, so why am I being so critical? Out of love. This is my second home and I feel that we should protect the values present here instead of downgrading the place.
How about FS posts didn't feature in the Latest feed? That way there would be no incentive for the dealers to clutter up the Private Sales subforum and we could focus on important topics like which straps to put on our Speedmasters.
EDIT: I wanted to add that the two current options for addressing issues with an item in the sales fora still are in favour of the seller. Contact a moderator? Contact the seller himself? Both are flawed options in the current setup. A moderator (I believe @DLT222 is the Sales Forum mod?) isn't always available, nor is he necessarily able to make a judgement (nor should he...) on the spot. The seller... Well, I have had limited success with that approach.
As I wrote - I love this forum and I love the lack of an elaborate rule set, but if you want a well-governed Sales Forum, you'll either need trust in the members to comment relevantly on the items OR you'll need hard and fast rules so that anyone acting shady can be reported. This halfway house of regulation isn't very good, IMO.
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cicindela
路路Steve @ 惟FCould we maybe hear the moderator's view? @cicindela?
The major difference here between OF and some other forums we tend to delete more posts than members.
Some might argue that is because we like keeping trouble makers here to have someone to torment and smack around.
Actually it is because the questioning trouble makers also make the most stimulating contributing members.
Strange world huh.
Great thread Troels 馃憤
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wsfarrell
路we could focus on important topics like which straps to put on our Speedmasters.
I totally agree with all you've said, but I fear commenting on sales has to be all or nothing. If you allow it, or even try to restrict it to non-pricing comments, it quickly turns into a typical internet swamp. Like this:
"That's the fifth watch you (a so-called private seller) have offered for sale this month."
***mod delete*** not relevant to sale
"$14,000 seems high for a 1969 Speedmaster."
***mod delete*** pricing comments not allowed
"Not sure the condition of that watch is in line with others of that vintage."
***mod delete*** value comments not allowed
"That dial looks like it's been repainted."
++No it hasn't.
"Yes it has, here's an original example."
++No it hasn't, here's one like it.
"Yes it has, I'm an expert."
++No it hasn't, your mother wears army boots.
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X350 XJR
路路Vintage Omega AficionadoThe biggest giveaway that the dial is refinished is that the figures have lost their sharpness. They are not removable on this style of dial so they are nearly always polished to some degree when the dial is refinished.
