The Italian legal system is so slow it would take a decade to get anywhere if the accused had a good lawyer and knew how to work the system.
After reading the emails and listening to Nico’s phone conversation, it sounds an awful lot to me like they are dealing with someone with serious narcissistic personality traits.
A narcissist’s reaction to being challenged and/or called out for being in the wrong is always to turn themselves into the victim while slandering and attacking those who would dare question their integrity or worth.
I’m not a psychiatrist, so obviously take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I grew up with a parent with a diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder and the behaviour I’m seeing from this individual is unquestionably familiar to me.
In Person Exchange Offer
So, which of our members are in Italy to arrange a videotaped exchange of the watch (and materials) at an agreed public location?
Not to suggest it clear that this guy shows up, but instead to offer an alternative to his recently suggested lawyer-to-lawyer via mail exchange. Presumably the lawyer-to-lawyer mail exchange is intended to provide some semblance of verification of delivery. That can also be accomplished by an in-person exchange that both party’s can videotape or otherwise create comfort.
Of course, I might expect this guy to either refuse the in-person option or to not show up to some excuse, but perhaps he surprises.
My law firm, Sherman & Sterling, has offices in both Milan and Rome and I could arrange for our offices to be the neutral location of any exchange.
And before the negative nanny responses, remember for a moment that this guy is reading this thread.
Valuation Of Watch
Meanwhile, I reiterate that it might be helpful for OP to clarify in what country he resides, and if there is any viable estimate of the watch’s value.
Alternatively, if one of our members has any capacity to provide a valuation using the many complete photographs of the watch had by OP, which valuation that member may attest to in writing along with their qualifications.
The legal severity of crimes of theft are often tiered by monetary value of the item; and, the higher the degree of theft the more attention enforcement agencies tend to give. I presume the value of this watch exceeds tens of thousands of dollars.
Relatedly, I also assume this guy’s visa/residence permit in Italy may be revoked for either (1) a certain level of theft in Italy, or (2) a certain level of crime in another jurisdiction (the OP’s jurisdiction) communicated to the Italian authorities.
But regardless of the viability of any of these measures, the prerequisite to any viability is having som lebdocumentary valuation of the watch.
not to mention that it is no accident, legally, that he keeps suggesting he will return the watch
people saying “call the authorities” unfortunately have an insufficient understanding of the practicalities raised in these situations
some people exist and persist in the grey gaps left by the laws and their enforcers
h .
You have a guy that has possession of items that are not his and when owners asked for them back , it was not a top priority to get them back. another person says he owes him money etc....
Hi
It would be a good idea to do a local physical hand off....
On valuation..... I saw the an old auction... for the watch selling for 3000 USD in 2008 plus hammer...
It not an issue that this might or might not be a high value watch .
You have a guy that has possession of items that are not his and when owners asked for them back , it was not a top priority to get them back. another person says he owes him money etc....
If the guy does not make the effort to return 3 out of 4 modified Seikos... what are the odds he would put any more effort into higher value items ?
Just disappointing.
Bill
In Person Exchange Offer
So, which of our members are in Italy to arrange a videotaped exchange of the watch (and materials) at an agreed public location?
I think that this may be a dubious suggestion. I say that because there is plenty of evidence to indicate that the person in question is not to be trusted, and inserting another innocent party into the process is, in my view, asking for trouble.
The suggestion is also based on the ludicrous claim that the watches would have been returned earlier had it not been for logistical issues. That is, quite clearly, a load a of bull. So, helping him with the logistics will not likely make any difference at all.
Keep the public heat on, and let the lawyers do their work.
The Italian legal system is so slow it would take a decade to get anywhere if the accused had a good lawyer and knew how to work the system.
I think that this may be a dubious suggestion. I say that because there is plenty of evidence to indicate that the person in question is not to be trusted, and inserting another innocent party into the process is, in my view, asking for trouble.
The suggestion is also based on the ludicrous claim that the watches would have been returned earlier had it not been for logistical issues. That is, quite clearly, a load a of bull. So, helping him with the logistics will not likely make any difference at all.
Of course, I might expect this guy to either refuse the in-person option or to not show up to some excuse, but perhaps he surprises.
Keep the public heat on, and let the lawyers do their work.
My law firm, Sherman & Sterling, has offices in both Milan and Rome and I could arrange for our offices to be the neutral location of any exchange.
Do you have any experience or specialist knowledge with this? Italy isn’t some third world country - it ranks similarly to the USA in the Rule of Law index 2021 (USA place 27, Italy place 34).
The Italian legal system is so slow it would take a decade to get anywhere if the accused had a good lawyer and knew how to work the system.
Just a little update: the reddit thread is getting traction. 127 upvotes so far and 67 comments. Word is getting out.
I still find it hard to believe all the YouTube people that are worshipped until they come-a-gutsa
