At this point I would definitely contact the authorities. You have him on video saying he has to return it and claiming it’s worth lots of money. You also have months of text claiming he would return it and he never has. With the other member having text where he did the same to them it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t plan on returning it. He’s a thief and deserves to be punished. Please keep us informed as how this goes. He never planned on returning the watch tomorrow or any other day. Just another lie in a long list of them
Italian State Police in Venice.
And they do speak English, the city is essentially populated with tourists— and this is just as bad as someone being pickpocketed out of their wallet.
La questura · Sestiere di Santa Croce, 500 - 30100 Venezia · telefono: 0412715511 · fax: 0412715402-04 · email: [email protected]
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace from day to day, to the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted innocents the way to dusty watch theft.
I just went through the 10 pages of this thread, ouch. I'm very sorry to the owners of watches that are being victimized by this scammer. On page 1 of this thread, it was abundantly clear the guy is a scammer/thief, and sorry to say, the likelihood of getting any of the stolen watches back is low. I say this based on seeing way too many of these situations in the past, and they always look the same, and mostly end up the same. There is nothing new here, its happened dozens and dozens of times before, and will continue to happen in the future. It goes something like this everytime:
1. Scammer always has reasons for the delays (many many delays, also with periods of radio silence)
2. The "delay game" plays out as long as the original owner is willing to play that game
3. When original owner stops playing the delay game and escalates, scammer jumps into victim mode ("I had to move", "I'm between jobs", "I'm going through personal stuff", "my mom died", etc.). This usually buys them a new round of game playing and further delays.
4. When original owner gets tired of the victimhood game, and escalates to "give it back or else", the scammer then reverse threatens the owner and says "Now that you are threatening me, I'm not going to send it back". Textbook scamming 101 playbook, make it appear that the original owners action is what is now preventing the watch return, when in fact, the watch was never coming back. Also typical of this stage or the next is the scammer blocks everyone, or just goes offline as they know the jig is up. Original owner may think they are the only one (they never are), or the original owner may start discovering at this point the others being scammed as well.
5. It's usually at this point the original owner realizes they have been played the fool, and starts to take real action.
6. At this point the scammer typically goes silent, deletes social media, etc. as they realize the jig is up.
To everyone recommending de-escalation "chill out, let the OP quietly negotiate with the scammer", you are giving terrible advice, you are all being played the fool, that's exactly what the scammer wants. It's LONG past time to contact authorities and get charges filed for theft, that should have been done after the first timeout many many months ago. The sooner you do that and get police involved, the more likely you will get your property back, and even if you do not get your property back, you have a responsibility to stop this guy so he doesn't do this to the next innocent victim.
To everyone recommending de-escalation "chill out, let the OP quietly negotiate with the scammer", you are giving terrible advice, you are all being played the fool, that's exactly what the scammer wants. It's LONG past time to contact authorities and get charges filed for theft, that should have been done after the first timeout many many months ago.
To be fair and perhaps mildly correct you here:
I don’t think a single person in this thread has said “chill out, let the OP quietly negotiate with the scammer" - can you show one such instance? If someone has said that, I agree with you, to that extent.
Instead, I think most people expressing an exercise of caution and strategy have variously meant (in various ways): “don’t think you’re a tough guy that’s going to make veiled threats online and accomplish anything productive with a person like this, who continues to have the OP’s watch and so the upper hand.” Which seems to also be a version of your point, no?
In which case I’m not sure who is disagreeing on anything?
If anyone has confused “don’t be a counterproductive wannabe tough guy” with “you should do nothing” then that person has widely missed the point.
My three thoughts on this tragic tale:
1) The OP needs to say explicitly, "I don't care about the video anymore. Don't waste your time doing that. Please use that time to instead send my watch back."
2) The response to "he'll have to go through a lawyer" should be a calm, "Why? Are you saying you have a right to keep his property when he has repeatedly, nicely, asked for it back? What legal principle, where you think you're being bullied, gives you that right?" I'd make him justify his douchebaggery. But we know he won't/can't.
3) The old saying about "don't lend money you can't afford to lose" appears to apply to watches as well. I hope others are as convinced as I am to never let my valuables out of my possession. Not to blame the victim, but I'd rather they sat in a safe, unseen & unappreciated, than pilfered by the unscrupulous. Actually, I'd rather destroy my own valuables than suffer the OP's anxiety & heartbreak. Excuse me while I go dig some holes in the backyard...
I read the OP's post and it made my blood boil. I haven't read through all the other posts.
Here's what I did when someone ripped me off in a watch deal. First I found the name. Second I found their address. Third I Googled/Facebooked/or whatever the hell out of them until via whatever method necessary I got a telephone number. Then I rang them continuely and made clear I immediately wanted my money back. I'm a light sleeper which gave me great flexibility in my ringing schedule. 😀
Don't listen to any excuses when they pick up the phone, be both persistent and very clear in what you know and what you expect.
The scammer threatened me with the police, said I was harassing him, but I got my money back.
I agree that the police should be notified, but I fear that won't get the watch back. I had a somewhat similar experience here in the US with a scumbag who wouldn't return a Datejust I bought from him, then sent back because he was going to have it serviced. (That was a long time ago. I know better now.) He stalled for weeks and weeks. I went to my local police, who basically said they can't do anything because he lived in another state.
The best chance with the police would be in the jurisdiction where the scammer lives. Worth a try but not likely to be given any priority or effort by the police, if they even listen. However, if this Bogart watch is very valuable, then maybe you can get the police interested.
In my case, it turned out the bad guy was actually a teenager. I tracked him down through internet research and called his father on the telephone. I had the watch back within a few days.
If there's a sliver lining, it's that this guy is not obscure and has a reputation to maintain if things get too public. I agree with whoever said that, given the provenance, this is a story that could reach beyond watch forums and youtube comment sections.
Have you considered asking him to take a photo of the watch with three fingers up, or something like that, to demonstrate that he is in possession of the watch?
Given this is about Humphrey Bogart I would imagine there’s a budding film maker out there who might be interested in making a little documentary out of this story and the scammer.
The Tinder Swindler has been quite a sensation. There’s a fair amount of interest in such stories.
Im of the view that Oisin was unprofessional and dismissive in his dealings with these watches. Clearly couldn't be bothered to travel to wherever his "connection" is to avoid import fees on the shipment.
However, I'm not yet convinced though, that he has or had nefarious intent, and I'm still hopeful that the OP will receive his watch in short order. The motive just doesn't seem there IMHO, given his public persona, but call me a sucker if you must.
EDIT: COMPLETELY convinced now as this thread progressed.
This whole situaton stinks. I really feel for the OP who was obvioulsy conflicted to even begin this thread in the first place.
Unfortunately this Youtuber seems to be completely dillusional and somehow thinks he is in the right. It feels a lot like some other situations we have seen which have went very public involving people in the public eye. They will do anything to give off the impression that they are succesful normally by robbing Peter to show off to Paul.
This guy has in some way pwaned your watch or given it to someone else and now he cant get it back. Otherwise he would have returned it and saved himself what is going to be a "career" ruining situation for him.
If we publicise this situation enough, no one will lend him watches which makes his channel unsustainable.
