Stolen package - recourse?

Please keep us informed on the result of your appeal with USPS.

I sell about 4 or 5 watches per week and ship exclusively with USPS because of convenience and cost. Most are valued at $500 or less, so there is no automatic requirement for a signature on the buyer's end, although I do insure everything.

So I'm very curious as to what the USPS tells you about its liability for insured packages that don't have a signature requirement:

If a package is insured for $400 but doesn't require a signature, is there a USPS policy that instructs the carrier how to decide whether it's safe to leave the $400 package on your doorstep in view of passers-by, or instead leave the pink notice that you need to pick it up later at the post office? Is the carrier required to ring your doorbell and wait a certain amount of time for you to come to the door before he then decides to leave the package on your doorstep or take it back to the post office?

I have been using USPS (insured by parcel pro) to a limited extent. I am now easing off that and starting to use Fedex / UPS / Parcel Pro almost exclusively now. Why?

The problem here is that USPS personnel sometimes falsely claim delivery in order to improve their performance metrics (i.e. they mark it as delivered even if it is not, and deliver it the next day - so they get good marks for "on-time delivery") I can confirm this is happening because I once talked to a manager at the post office:

me: "hey tracking says I received and signed for a package, but nothing of the sort happened. And I was home the whole day"
postmaster: "just wait for it tomorrow"

So given that USPS can fudge the actual tracking info - what happens if the postman actually decides to steal the package between the time its marked as "delivered" in the tracking info.. and the next day when it actually gets delivered?

BTW, and on another note - Parcel Pro provides limited fraud coverage ONLY when its shipped via UPS now, and if you do not share the tracking number with the recipient (which is kinda difficult to do)

Required for items valued $750 and above, else you get no seller protection. That's pretty much cut and dried. I think the real question is how does Ebay handle losses valued under $750?

Have cameras on the house so I can keep track of the parade of Amazon deliveries the wife has. I think she has qualified for her own truck now. Always know if a delivery has been made and who is brave enough to enter the lawn. The crescendo of dog barking keeps the intruders at a minimum also.

I don't understand these types of comments at all; and I often get them anytime I try to explain a legal issue here, as just happened over the last few days in that now-closed thread about the reneging eBay seller and the OF member who undercut the rightful winner of that auction. The whole point of a forum is discussion, which makes it ridiculous for anybody to question why anybody else chooses to contribute more thought and/or information than many others might wish to on any topic of interest to that poster. IMO, the only thing that's "patently absurd" here is for someone not even interested enough in the topic to offer a single substantive thought on it questioning "why" someone else chooses to contribute to it intelligently and comprehensively.

Al has been right since his first post and it's not because he's "wrapped up" in "excusing" the seller. The seller did exactly what he was supposed to do and Al was careful enough to wait to find out whether or not the shipper was supposed to require a signature before expressing his opinion. Under what legal or moral theory does anybody suppose that a chargeback against the seller would be justified under these circumstances, even if you could execute it successfully? The shipping method was specified in advance; so how does a buyer who could and should have requested a signature confirmation instead consider a seller "responsible" because the seller could or should have done what the buyer chose not to bother offering to pay for? What about the buyer? If the buyer already knows there's an issue with PO deliveries and he was home, what about just posting a note on your door saying "I'm home. Please ring my bell and don't leave packages unattended" (or without the first part when he's not home but knows he's expecting an expensive package)?

If the Postal employee violated policy by leaving the package in a non-secure area (if that's the policy for the type of service involved), then. the buyer's only rightful beef is with the PO, not the totally innocent seller. Once the package actually makes it to the right address, the buyer is 100% off the hook, regardless of what happens to the package, unless he either promised or agreed to require a signature and failed to do that. I didn't bother responding to this thread earlier because as soon as I saw Al's explanation about that, I figured it would be understood by all.

FYI, I don't believe that any CC (even Amex) will entertain this as a chargeback claim, either, because the item wasn't paid for directly by CC; it was paid for by PayPal only funded by the CC. That means PayPal (and eBay) are likely going to be the sole arbiters of who is (and isn't) responsible, not your CC. I believe your CC would only entertain the claim for transactions without any 3rd party in between, such as where you pay a seller directly using your CC. I wasted an hour of my life squeezing that answer out of Amex reps in 2012 and I had to cut through all sorts of double talk in their attempts to avoid (finally) admitting that Amex offered zero protection if the payment went through PayPal if PayPal denied the claim, because Amex considered PayPal (not the seller) to be the "merchant" in this situation. I'll spare you the rest of the details so nobody accuses me of being "wrapped up" in denigrating Amex or demands to know what I have "against" the OP.

Yes, agree with this. From the seller's perspective, if you as the buyer have expectations or desires that are not clear from the listing, please reach out and ask, preferably before you send funds.

I can't think of a single transaction I've had that fell apart because we couldn't come to agreement as to shipping terms, whether it be cost, method of shipment (some folks really hate USPS, or FedEx, or UPS, for their own reasons), amount of insurance, signature required or not. I get just as many buyers wanting to ensure signature is NOT required, because it is more of a hassle to them to have to go pick up the package at the post office when they're not at home to sign for it. All of which is easily agreed upon ahead of time with some good communication. To that end, on Bill's suggestion, all of my future listings will make clear that insurance/signature is at buyer's request and expense, so there is no confusion as to whether it is included in the list price.