Speedmaster Repair Problems

PandaSPUR · Jan 31, 2020

g-boac
Correct. I think PandaSPUR was using retail price of what the warranty would cost a customer if not in warranty as an example to illustrate. Additionally, there probably is some real cost incurred by Omega, maybe 50%, for warranty services that “costs” the company. Since work is being done, parts are being used, while revenue is not coming in for the task.

For the owner, however, given that there is no OB in his area, he still has to pay the cost of shipping plus insurance, which probably tally up to about $60 if USPS Registered Mail (which offers insurance and is indented for high value shipments), and maybe $100 if FedEx with ParcelPro (or JM or comparable) insurance. Not to mention loss of use of the watch.

sure, stuff happens and that’s what warranty is for. The issue here is when you start to get comeback after comeback, the tens of dollars turn into hundreds for postage (or hours of making repeat trips to the OB), and weeks without watch become months.

So I would think that 8 months or a year of an ongoing issue would actually be the right range for a new watch: the owner has given Omega ample time and multiple tries to repair the watch, and I think that a new watch (or even offering a refund if desired, customer’s choice) would be a great way for Omega to stand behind their products, nice customer service gesture, and an amicable outcome for both sides.

Yep exactly this. I'm comparing retail cost of Omega's service for a chronograph vs retail cost of the new watch. For Omega the actual costs will be different and unknown to us of course, but the cost of the service work will eventually surpass the cost of a new watch.

Aside from the actual monetary costs related to servicing vs watch, I would hope Omega values its reputation enough to just replace a watch after X failed services.

Evitzee · Jan 31, 2020

One reason prices are where they are is to cover issues like this over a FIVE year warranty. Omega is not going to replace the OP's watch at this point, it will get sorted out. There is nothing magical about the 1861 movement that can't be fixed.

OP is now living in Denver and although there is no Omega Boutique in the area (odd it would seem), there is an AD in Denver, Hyde Park Jewelers. I know nothing about them but I just looked at their website and they are a factory authorized service center for many brands, including Rolex and Omega. I would take the watch in there and explain your situation and see how they want to handle it. Might be a better way to go than continuing to send it to an Omega Service Center. Would be worthwhile to visit them and see what they say.

Martin_F · Jan 31, 2020

I agree, @g-boac at this point asking for a replacement watch seems like the appropriate thing to do.

mjb · Jan 31, 2020

g-boac
For the owner, however, given that there is no OB in his area, he still has to pay the cost of shipping plus insurance

Actually, Omega will pay for shipping both ways for service center work.

I agree that two repair attempts in 8 months is terribly annoying, but I think asking for or expecting a replacement is unreasonable. If they fail on the third attempt, then yes, escalation is in order. It would be worth mentioning, when returning it, that it is the third visit in less than a year. Maybe someone will then notice and maybe pay a bit more attention in post repair QA.

Best of luck OP.

Dan S · Jan 31, 2020

I’m not sure this helps in any way, but there is an Omega Boutique in Denver at Hyde Park Jewelers in Cherry Creek. I went there once to pick up a bracelet for my wife’s Speedster.

Edit: Actually I can't swear it's an OB vs. an AD. As a vintage collector, I really don't pay much attention to those subtleties.

PandaSPUR · Jan 31, 2020

Evitzee
One reason prices are where they are is to cover issues like this over a FIVE year warranty. Omega is not going to replace the OP's watch at this point, it will get sorted out. There is nothing magical about the 1861 movement that can't be fixed.

OP is now living in Denver and although there is no Omega Boutique in the area (odd it would seem), there is an AD in Denver, Hyde Park Jewelers. I know nothing about them but I just looked at their website and they are a factory authorized service center for many brands, including Rolex and Omega. I would take the watch in there and explain your situation and see how they want to handle it. Might be a better way to go than continuing to send it to an Omega Service Center. Would be worthwhile to visit them and see what they say.

The five year warranty is meant to show Omega's belief that your watch will be ticking along perfectly fine even five years out with no real issues. They do not provide a five year warranty expecting to perform multiple services per year lol.

Also, are ADs able to perform service under warranty? I would assume the AD would just ship it off for the customer at most, if its warranty related.

mjb
Actually, Omega will pay for shipping both ways for service center work.

I agree that two repair attempts in 8 months is terribly annoying, but I think asking for or expecting a replacement is unreasonable. If they fail on the third attempt, then yes, escalation is in order. It would be worth mentioning, when returning it, that it is the third visit in less than a year. Maybe someone will then notice and maybe pay a bit more attention in post repair QA.

Best of luck OP.

I don't think its unreasonable as long as one is calm and polite when asking if it is an option.

mjb · Feb 1, 2020

PandaSPUR
I don't think its unreasonable as long as one is calm and polite when asking if it is an option.

Absolutely! My motto is, it never hurts to ask.

I was speaking more to the folks who were expecting an immediate replacement and nothing less.

wadesw0rld · Feb 1, 2020

Archer
Now just switch the chronograph off, and see how much longer it runs...

Clicked the chronograph start/stop, it ran for an additional 16 hours and 34 minutes. Total charge of 50 hours and 34 minutes.

Duckie · Feb 1, 2020

For all intents and purposes, it's normal?

Archer · Feb 1, 2020

wadesw0rld
Clicked the chronograph start/stop, it ran for an additional 16 hours and 34 minutes. Total charge of 50 hours and 34 minutes.

Omega states that the watch will run 48 hours on a full wind - you have 50.5 hours, which is usually what I see in these watches when I am done servicing them. Based on this, your watch will run for the full reserve, so nothing wrong there.

I asked you previously to replicate the same conditions that you experienced when the watch stopped before, and you ran it down with the chronograph on, so does this mean you run the watch with the chronograph on all or most of the time? I believe you previously stated that it has never stopped on you when the chronograph wasn't on.

Your original complaint was this:

"I wore the watch for a couple months, but in the fall the watch stopped a couple times randomly while there was definitely still energy stored in the spring."

The watch will stop when the torque being supplied by the mainspring is insufficient to keep the watch running. When you turn the chronograph on, it adds load to the wheel train of the watch, and the watch requires more torque to stay running. So as the torque from the mainspring drops, the watch will stop sooner then when there is less load on it - that's why it continued to run for 16+ hours after you turned the chronograph on, and you have stated you could always get it started again by pressing the button to stop the chronograph. It will typically stop at peak load, which is when the finger on the chronograph wheel contacts another wheel, which in turn flips the minute counter - this is exactly where your watch stopped after the first test.

Now there isn't a specified time that the watch should run with the chronograph running, so there's no way to say that running for 34 hours is normal or not, but based on my own testing it's not all that unusual. It's possible that the spring on the minute counter jumper that has to be overcome to flip the minute counter is maybe set a big heavy, but to me this is not a concern.

Based on all the numbers here you have given, I don't see anything wrong with your watch. I know many want to say you should demand a replacement right away and such things, but in all honesty your watch appears to be running just as it should. You have said you wind it fully every day, but sometimes people forget - I know I do, and my gut feel would be that if you are running the chronograph all the time, you have mon occasion forgotten to wind the watch, and it's stopped.

Cheers, Al

cholack · Feb 1, 2020

Archer
Omega states that the watch will run 48 hours on a full wind - you have 50.5 hours, which is usually what I see in these watches when I am done servicing them. Based on this, your watch will run for the full reserve, so nothing wrong there.

I asked you previously to replicate the same conditions that you experienced when the watch stopped before, and you ran it down with the chronograph on, so does this mean you run the watch with the chronograph on all or most of the time? I believe you previously stated that it has never stopped on you when the chronograph wasn't on.

Your original complaint was this:

"I wore the watch for a couple months, but in the fall the watch stopped a couple times randomly while there was definitely still energy stored in the spring."

The watch will stop when the torque being supplied by the mainspring is insufficient to keep the watch running. When you turn the chronograph on, it adds load to the wheel train of the watch, and the watch requires more torque to stay running. So as the torque from the mainspring drops, the watch will stop sooner then when there is less load on it - that's why it continued to run for 16+ hours after you turned the chronograph on, and you have stated you could always get it started again by pressing the button to stop the chronograph. It will typically stop at peak load, which is when the finger on the chronograph wheel contacts another wheel, which in turn flips the minute counter - this is exactly where your watch stopped after the first test.

Now there isn't a specified time that the watch should run with the chronograph running, so there's no way to say that running for 34 hours is normal or not, but based on my own testing it's not all that unusual. It's possible that the spring on the minute counter jumper that has to be overcome to flip the minute counter is maybe set a big heavy, but to me this is not a concern.

Based on all the numbers here you have given, I don't see anything wrong with your watch. I know many want to say you should demand a replacement right away and such things, but in all honesty your watch appears to be running just as it should. You have said you wind it fully every day, but sometimes people forget - I know I do, and my gut feel would be that if you are running the chronograph all the time, you have mon occasion forgotten to wind the watch, and it's stopped.

Cheers, Al

Q.E.D

ScubaPro · Feb 1, 2020

Interesting problem. First, nobody but you knows for sure if you're winding it fully and at the set intervals you say, but I'd wager you're remembering things correctly. All I can say is I think (obviously) there's something unusual wrong with the watch that's messing with the power reserve. I think the best thing would be to send it in again, making sure they know the weird nature of your problem. I think something unusual is happening in the movement that only a full overhaul can fix. But Archer is a Master, I am several stages below in the cringing vermin class of watch knowledge. He knows his stuff. In any event, best of luck. If you keep the watch for a long time, this odd problem will vanish into the past.

wadesw0rld · Feb 12, 2020

Archer
Omega states that the watch will run 48 hours on a full wind - you have 50.5 hours, which is usually what I see in these watches when I am done servicing them. Based on this, your watch will run for the full reserve, so nothing wrong there.

I asked you previously to replicate the same conditions that you experienced when the watch stopped before, and you ran it down with the chronograph on, so does this mean you run the watch with the chronograph on all or most of the time? I believe you previously stated that it has never stopped on you when the chronograph wasn't on.

Your original complaint was this:

"I wore the watch for a couple months, but in the fall the watch stopped a couple times randomly while there was definitely still energy stored in the spring."

The watch will stop when the torque being supplied by the mainspring is insufficient to keep the watch running. When you turn the chronograph on, it adds load to the wheel train of the watch, and the watch requires more torque to stay running. So as the torque from the mainspring drops, the watch will stop sooner then when there is less load on it - that's why it continued to run for 16+ hours after you turned the chronograph on, and you have stated you could always get it started again by pressing the button to stop the chronograph. It will typically stop at peak load, which is when the finger on the chronograph wheel contacts another wheel, which in turn flips the minute counter - this is exactly where your watch stopped after the first test.

Now there isn't a specified time that the watch should run with the chronograph running, so there's no way to say that running for 34 hours is normal or not, but based on my own testing it's not all that unusual. It's possible that the spring on the minute counter jumper that has to be overcome to flip the minute counter is maybe set a big heavy, but to me this is not a concern.

Based on all the numbers here you have given, I don't see anything wrong with your watch. I know many want to say you should demand a replacement right away and such things, but in all honesty your watch appears to be running just as it should. You have said you wind it fully every day, but sometimes people forget - I know I do, and my gut feel would be that if you are running the chronograph all the time, you have mon occasion forgotten to wind the watch, and it's stopped.

Cheers, Al

Archer,

Really appreciate your input on this! I have been paying extra attention to ensuring my watch is wound each morning, hoping you are right in thinking I just forget every once in a while.

Unfortunately I just woke up to find the watch stopped again. When I wound the watch again it took far fewer turns than normal, indicating to me that it had not only stopped prior to a full day, but it had actually only run for approximately 10 hours and 30 minutes before stopping. I didn't check to see if it was still running after taking it off right after work, so I can't confirm it wasn't 22 hours and 30 minutes. Either way, I still think there's something wrong with the watch.

The chonograph was running, as it seems is the case every time the watch stops. And your point regarding the minute counter jumper holds true, in fact in every picture I've taken of the watch stopping the chronograph hand is at ~58 seconds. Another thing I've noticed is that when the watch stops I am able to get it going again by clicking the start/stop on the chronograph twice. Next time it stops early I will see how long I am able to run it with the chronograph still running.

Speedmaster Repair Problems

PandaSPUR

Evitzee

Martin_F

mjb

Dan S

PandaSPUR

mjb

wadesw0rld

Duckie

Archer

cholack

ScubaPro

wadesw0rld

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