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Linas
·Maybe I misread, but it seems he asked the AD, so it seems the AD is involved. The faster he can get the AD uninvolved the better.
Speedmaster Racing - repeated moisture issues for 5 Years, now Omega says crown tube damaged
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerMaybe I misread, but it seems he asked the AD, so it seems the AD is involved. The faster he can get the AD uninvolved the better.
Do you send it in through an AD?
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ErichPryde
··Seamasters ForeverYou are using this situation as some sort of combination of dire warning and "see I was right about the water resistance after all" springboard.
That doesn't solve your problem and it doesn't reflect many, many other people's experience, which is why other users are saying "well if you want to believe that ok"
Do you actually want this problem solved? This "50m is not 50m" topic has been an undercurrent of your posts since it came up. It's not important to your solution.
That said- I'm backing out of this conversation again for the moment because I'm not personally convinced that the purpose of your posts is to solve your issue.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerNot at all, I agree with everything you said, I just don't like the framing of "if you wish to believe it", because I don't, neither wish, nor believe it. Also, the implication here is simply wider than “a defective watch.” The implication is that when it comes to WR, the policy becomes ambiguous in practice, because the written statements are either unenforceable through normal customer‑service channels or there is nobody to escalate them to.
Again WR ratings have nothing to do with this. It wouldn't make any difference if this was a Seamaster, PO, Tesor, Speedmaster, etc.
They are not following the policies in this specific instance, and you want to take that as it being "unenforceable", which is not correct.
Again, you need to escalate this beyond the service center.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThat said- I'm backing out of this conversation again for the moment because I'm not personally convinced that the purpose of your posts is to solve your issue.
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ErichPryde
··Seamasters ForeverI'm feeling the same. We've seen this before as well...
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Porteroso
·This was asked and answered on page 2. It was not sent in though the AD, so the AD has no part in this repair or dispute.
Omega itself care less about the legality of repairs in every country, and more about honoring its warranty, it seems to me, so even if talking to the AD is the "right" thing, I think getting through to someone at Omega is actually the best idea.
I really don't have anything else to say to you. It seems we are in agreement, yet you are trying to argue over the definition of "involved." Not interested.
To the OP, call or email from the main contact page below. You will be directed to soneone higher up, and separate from the service center. Even if they ultimately tell you they wont do anything they will not lie to you about the warranty.
You deserve closure one way or another, and sometimes it's all about finding the right person.
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Linas
·You are using this situation as some sort of combination of dire warning and "see I was right about the water resistance after all" springboard.
That doesn't solve your problem and it doesn't reflect many, many other people's experience, which is why other users are saying "well if you want to believe that ok"
Do you actually want this problem solved? This "50m is not 50m" topic has been an undercurrent of your posts since it came up. It's not important to your solution.
That said- I'm backing out of this conversation again for the moment because I'm not personally convinced that the purpose of your posts is to solve your issue.
I am just saying that Omega marketing or Customer Care policy (same thing) is of no help to me, because I have no way of enforcing it. I have no way of proving it was defective, I have no way of proving it did not meet the expectation for WR rating. There is no undercurrent, I just quoted word-for-word what AD said. I also provided all the information the actual Omega decided.
What 50m WR is supposed to mean are all just nice words, what it means to me in practice is that is I have a damaged watch that costs thousands to fix and nowhere to escalate it. If somebody takes this as a "cautionary tale" - so be it, because that is reality. Unless you are somehow claiming I am unique by having WR issues. I guess Omega should do better and make sure that they support customers better, so that they don't go around forums looking for help?! Not my intention, but if that is the outcome, then it is diserved.
I keep getting told "I wish to believe" and that "I need to escalate", but I have nowhere else to escalate it to.
Honestly, I choose to believe what you are saying, because if I didn't, then the only alternative is to believe what AD and Omega is saying... and that would be just paying for repairs and considering myself lucky.
I just find it weird that you take the problem with me reporting the truth... as if "nobody should dare muddle the name of a divine entity of Omega WR ratings". And no - I don't need you to repeat this is not WR rating issue... but in truth it does not matter. It is just a watch that is supposed to be resistant and was not resistant. Reason doesn't matter, what matters is that Omega and ADs don't support customers when it comes to WR issues... at least in my case, they don't support me.
And if people choose to take their luck in finding out if they are Omega favourites or not and whenever Omega honour it just for them, then so be it. I am not going to suppress the truth, just because it is not politically correct.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerThe OP is saying that petitioning the AD is the only "legal" recourse he has, so I'm trying to see if there are other avenues.
Omega itself care less about the legality of repairs in every country, and more about honoring its warranty, it seems to me, so even if talking to the AD is the "right" thing, I think getting through to someone at Omega is actually the best idea.
I really don't have anything else to say to you. It seems we are in agreement, yet you are trying to argue over the definition of "involved." Not interested.
To the OP, call or email from the main contact page below. You will be directed to soneone higher up, and separate from the service center. Even if they ultimately tell you they wont do anything they will not lie to you about the warranty.
You deserve closure one way or another, and sometimes it's all about finding the right person.
I just pointed out that he didn't send it in through the AD, that's all.
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Linas
·The OP is saying that petitioning the AD is the only "legal" recourse he has, so I'm trying to see if there are other avenues.
Omega itself care less about the legality of repairs in every country, and more about honoring its warranty, it seems to me, so even if talking to the AD is the "right" thing, I think getting through to someone at Omega is actually the best idea.
I really don't have anything else to say to you. It seems we are in agreement, yet you are trying to argue over the definition of "involved." Not interested.
To the OP, call or email from the main contact page below. You will be directed to soneone higher up, and separate from the service center. Even if they ultimately tell you they wont do anything they will not lie to you about the warranty.
You deserve closure one way or another, and sometimes it's all about finding the right person.
There is also a good reason why AD should engage in it for their own good. Because, the only legal way - is for me to sue AD for the full price of the watch. It is horrible for everyone involved; it is actually bad for me, because I can only call up to the original purchase price. It is generally very much worse for everyone involved.
https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/contact-us - yes, that is what I used, that is how I got my watch booked for repairs, that is the e-mail address I am using to contact them. Just in my case, I get a response from Omega Service Department... maybe there is some way it could be routed to somebody else internally, but I can't choose where it goes, they will route it depending on what it is internally.
I guess if I make the title of it "complaint", maybe it goes to the complaint team, but I have no control of where it goes.
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Linas
·I haven’t asked Omega to escalate it because that would mean asking them to escalate a complaint about themselves, basically "failed to diagnose the issue during warranty and should therefore fix it out of warranty because it’s a pre‑existing defect". I doubt it would get me anywhere, but I could try and see if it helps.
It’s The Swatch Group (UK) Service Centre in Southampton. As far as I know, that is the one and only Omega service centre in the entire country.
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Dan S
·I haven’t asked Omega to escalate it because that would mean asking them to escalate a complaint about themselves, basically "failed to diagnose the issue during warranty and should therefore fix it out of warranty because it’s a pre‑existing defect". I doubt it would get me anywhere, but I could try and see if it helps.
I'm not saying that you should or that I would, I'm agnostic about this whole thing and TBH I haven't read every post in the thread. But if you're not happy about the resolution, and you have the energy to continue, then I'd say it's the obvious thing to attempt.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerIn the AD, yes - I have spoken with 4 different people, all giving essentially the same line. The last one was the Regional Service Manager, and he’s the one who told me, basically “50 m WR = hand‑wash only”. He also added - “honestly, I think that is the best deal you are going to get, and you’re lucky you are dealing directly with Omega because they don’t offer discounts to customers who come through us”. Take it or leave it, he may be full of shit (he probably is), but that is what he said.
What you have to realize is what is in the customer service policy manual with regards to warranty and who pays for it:
"Coverage of the cost for sales warranties’ work is included in the margin of the authorized distributor of OMEGA products."
Seems like a very innocuous statement, but it tells you why they do not put AD's in charge of warranty determination. It also tells you why AD's tell you things like 50m = splash resistance, because they don't want to be on the hook in case there is a failure.
I haven’t asked Omega to escalate it because that would mean asking them to escalate a complaint about themselves, basically "failed to diagnose the issue during warranty and should therefore fix it out of warranty because it’s a pre‑existing defect". I doubt it would get me anywhere, but I could try and see if it helps.
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Linas
·From Omega's Customer Care Policy (this is not advertising) - water resistance:
"Our water resistant watches are perfectly suited for aquatic activities (showering, snorkeling, water-skiing, etc.) to their specified depth. Pushers should not be used underwater unless the watch model is designed for this purpose (Seamaster Diver 300m and Planet Ocean). A watch's water resistance might be affected by ageing of its components. OMEGA recommends to perform a water resistance check once a year.
If a watch comes in for water resistance problems during its warranty (sales and service) or extended warranty period, the service will be performed under warranty unless signs of abuse or an intervention by a non-authorised third party can be doubtlessly proven and consequently void the warranty. The above does not apply to declassified vintage watches."
The best I can find is a much more vague statement:
Well, still says "30m rated can be worn up to 30m depth", which is still a strong claim, but they seem to exclude "water sport" activities, which would be much more extreme. And misuse claim.
I guess as far as my escalation goes, this wording is probably better, because my watch is 50m rated and I am much more likely to be able to participate in "aquatic activities" than be able to dive to a depth of 50m. Honestly, 99% of the population probably can't dive that deep.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI posted the information from the customer care manual, which is what Omega gives their own people to provide direction on how to deal with situations just like this, so that you could use it as leverage in your conversations with the service center.
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josiahg52
·Archer said it much better and eloquently, but again, nothing you've described is extreme or outside the capabilities of your Speedmaster. You can choose to elevate, or not. Arguing what water resistance means or doesn't, what the watch is intended for or not is not the poin, Omega is clear how they rate their watches. Your watch is defective. It was defective under warranty, failed multiple times under warranty (or was never fully repaired), and is still defective.
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ErichPryde
··Seamasters ForeverArcher said it much better and eloquently, but again, nothing you've described is extreme or outside the capabilities of your Speedmaster. That you're speaking with an AD goes back to my point, the interactions you've described seem like someone who has zero technical knowledge of how a watch design functions is interpreting service center notes and regurgitating them into terms and phrases they understand.
Linas originally created a thread about this issue in 2021 and expressed similar beliefs that the Speedmaster can't handle water. That was the second time the watch had shown indications of water intrusion per the thread, but the first time it was sent in. This poster has been absent from the forum since their first two posts in August of 2021, and this current thread states that the watch went back into service for water intrusion in 2022, and then again a year later in 2023. That's wild. And, it's well past the point that most of us would have put up with this issue before reaching out to Omega's customer service directly and saying "hey, something is really not OK here."
Per the original thread, Linas believed at the time he purchased his watch that the water resistance was probably insufficient. His takeaway from that first water intrusion was "ok 5ATM means take it to the shower and nowhere else - remember to add Seamaster into shopping list for next occasion". Clearly the AD he was dealing with was telling him similar things... which we all know ADs do. After all, they want to sell more watches.
People in that thread suggested that something wasn't right and posted Omega's water resistance data, but what's clear in this thread, through both posts and a whole bunch of pushback- is that he doesn't believe and is highly resistant to this info, and still carries the same opinion: he believes that the water resistance numbers don't mean it can actually handle water. This, then, is of course being confirmed by his experience.
I have to wonder to what degree confirmation bias played in this whole fiasco. If I believed it was just part of the Speedmaster experience, perhaps I wouldn't escalate after the second or even third time. Perhaps I wouldn't have started doing my own detective work, and taken the time to pressure test the watch somewhere on my own. Perhaps I'd just put up with it until the warranty expired.
At that point, perhaps then, I'd be a lot more inclined to just argue the point that it's just because of how the Speedmaster is, than admit that maybe that belief caused me not to take any action that would have led to a different outcome.
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Dan S
·I will just say that strategically, if the OP is hoping to get Omega to fix his watch, the argument that his watch is a defective lemon is a better argument than to claim that a Speedmaster can't handle a shower. Because Omega knows that the latter isn't true.
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ErichPryde
··Seamasters ForeverI will just say that strategically, if the OP is hoping to get Omega to fix his watch, the argument that his watch is a defective lemon is a better argument than to claim that a Speedmaster can't handle a shower. Because Omega knows that the latter isn't true.
And if it really has been into service three times in a five year span for the same issue, this really should not be a hard argument to make. It would require the OP to acknowledge that their stance isn't correct though, and they seem really attached to that stance.
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