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Speedmaster Racing - repeated moisture issues for 5 Years, now Omega says crown tube damaged
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josiahg52
·That is what they told me, how true it is - that is another question. They have not sent me pictures, just said there is a scratch on it.
Not sure how that would benefit me if it leaks right away, unless you mean - because of the extended warranty. But then what is the plan - it leaks again, I send it out for free service and then sell it later rather than selling it right away?
I don't know any independent watchmakers that can work on it, nevermind one I would trust.
If you want to keep it, I said. It gives you two years of coverage if it continues to be an issue. If you are selling it, now or later due to this issue, there is no point in servicing it. You will not get ~£1400 more for having serviced it, I don't think.
They've kind of screwed you on multiple levels. Even if you service it, how can you know it's repaired? The people who say it needs serviced and will certify it repaired are the same who said it was water resistant three times in five years. Either it's finally repaired properly or something very odd, unique, and specific is going on with this watch. That would make me pause as a potential buyer.
And any watchmaker properly certified by Omega should be capable of servicing it.
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Linas
·There are plenty of us out there who are Omega certified...
If you want to keep it, I said. It gives you two years of coverage if it continues to be an issue. If you are selling it, now or later due to this issue, there is no point in servicing it. You will not get ~£1400 more for having serviced it, I don't think.
They've kind of screwed you on multiple levels. Even if you service it, how can you know it's repaired? The people who say it needs serviced and will certify it repaired are the same who said it was water resistant three times in five years. Either it's finally repaired properly or something very odd, unique, and specific is going on with this watch. That would make me pause as a potential buyer.
And any watchmaker properly certified by Omega should be capable of servicing it.
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Davidt
·But you do trust the numerous, anonymous watchmakers and technicians at Omega HQ who had your watch several times and not sorted it?
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Linas
·But you do trust the numerous, anonymous watchmakers and technicians at Omega HQ who had your watch several times and not sorted it?
Now that it’s out of warranty, of course, I could go to an independent, but an independent can’t take the past service history into account, can’t escalate anything internally and can’t replace the watch if something goes wrong. They will just charge me for whatever work is needed, regardless of whether the problem has existed since day one.
So it’s not that I think the anonymous watchmakers at Omega are inherently better. It’s that Omega, as a company, is the only party with any responsibility for the repeated failures and the only one who can actually make things right.
They may choose not to and in hindsight an independent might end up being the better route… but I don’t have that hindsight, do I?!
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Davidt
·You do have hindsight for the last few years. That’s exactly what you’re talking about in this thread. Use that hindsight and consider an independent who’ll likely do an equally good, or more likely, a better job.
Omega aren’t going to replace your watch as part of a service are they. As youve already said, Omega will charge for anything else needed regardless of the fact the issue has existed since day one.
Omega aren’t going to replace your watch as part of a service are they. As youve already said, Omega will charge for anything else needed regardless of the fact the issue has existed since day one.
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Linas
·No, I don’t think that’s fair. It’s only clear now - it wasn’t clear on the previous occasions. And sending a watch anywhere other than Omega while it’s under warranty makes no sense, so even if I wasn’t happy, I didn’t really have a choice. The whole point of a warranty is that the manufacturer fixes the watch.
Even if an Omega‑certified independent doesn’t technically void the warranty, if anything major is discovered, it still gives Omega an easy excuse to say - “it was opened by someone else, so we don’t know what caused the issue now".
You are also assuming I had perfect information from the start. I didn’t. There was no reason for me not to trust Omega. What exactly is the suggestion here - the watch comes back “fixed” from Omega and I immediately take it to an independent for verification? Honestly, who buys an £8k watch and then pays an independent £1k to double‑check Omega’s work while it’s still under warranty?! That’s not a realistic expectation.
And you are assuming I just happen to have a trusted Omega master watchmaker friend whose findings I can rely on. In reality, if an independent found an issue and Omega blamed them, I would almost certainly end up siding with Omega (anyone would), because I can’t validate either party’s findings myself. It would just be one word against another.
With hindsight, sure, I can say “maybe an independent could have investigated it earlier”, but that wouldn’t have put me in a better position. Omega isn’t going to accept a third‑party report and say, “yes, this was a lemon and because we are incompetent we just didn't realise it - here is your replacement”. More likely I would lose the warranty (or simply be unable to claim it), lose leverage before the warranty expired and still not know who to believe or what was wrong.
Then I bet someone else would show up to tell me I was stupid for sending it to an unknown independent during the warranty instead of being "normal" and just trusting Omega - "your watch was under warranty, why didn't you use it?!".
Even if an Omega‑certified independent doesn’t technically void the warranty, if anything major is discovered, it still gives Omega an easy excuse to say - “it was opened by someone else, so we don’t know what caused the issue now".
You are also assuming I had perfect information from the start. I didn’t. There was no reason for me not to trust Omega. What exactly is the suggestion here - the watch comes back “fixed” from Omega and I immediately take it to an independent for verification? Honestly, who buys an £8k watch and then pays an independent £1k to double‑check Omega’s work while it’s still under warranty?! That’s not a realistic expectation.
And you are assuming I just happen to have a trusted Omega master watchmaker friend whose findings I can rely on. In reality, if an independent found an issue and Omega blamed them, I would almost certainly end up siding with Omega (anyone would), because I can’t validate either party’s findings myself. It would just be one word against another.
With hindsight, sure, I can say “maybe an independent could have investigated it earlier”, but that wouldn’t have put me in a better position. Omega isn’t going to accept a third‑party report and say, “yes, this was a lemon and because we are incompetent we just didn't realise it - here is your replacement”. More likely I would lose the warranty (or simply be unable to claim it), lose leverage before the warranty expired and still not know who to believe or what was wrong.
Then I bet someone else would show up to tell me I was stupid for sending it to an unknown independent during the warranty instead of being "normal" and just trusting Omega - "your watch was under warranty, why didn't you use it?!".
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GrouchoM
·Do you send it in through an AD? If so, when it arrives back from servicing, I'd put it in a glass of water at the AD and let it sit for at least 1 hour. This way, the AD knows you didn't mess with it and, if it's still got a problem, it should show up then.
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Davidt
·No, I don’t think that’s fair. It’s only clear now - it wasn’t clear on the previous occasions. And sending a watch anywhere other than Omega while it’s under warranty makes no sense, so even if I wasn’t happy, I didn’t really have a choice. The whole point of a warranty is that the manufacturer fixes the watch.
Even if an Omega‑certified independent doesn’t technically void the warranty, if anything major is discovered, it still gives Omega an easy excuse to say - “it was opened by someone else, so we don’t know what caused the issue now".
You are also assuming I had perfect information from the start. I didn’t. There was no reason for me not to trust Omega. What exactly is the suggestion here - the watch comes back “fixed” from Omega and I immediately take it to an independent for verification? Honestly, who buys an £8k watch and then pays an independent £1k to double‑check Omega’s work while it’s still under warranty?! That’s not a realistic expectation.
And you are assuming I just happen to have a trusted Omega master watchmaker friend whose findings I can rely on. In reality, if an independent found an issue and Omega blamed them, I would almost certainly end up siding with Omega (anyone would), because I can’t validate either party’s findings myself. It would just be one word against another.
With hindsight, sure, I can say “maybe an independent could have investigated it earlier”, but that wouldn’t have put me in a better position. Omega isn’t going to accept a third‑party report and say, “yes, this was a lemon and because we are incompetent we just didn't realise it - here is your replacement”. More likely I would lose the warranty (or simply be unable to claim it), lose leverage before the warranty expired and still not know who to believe or what was wrong.
Then I bet someone else would show up to tell me I was stupid for sending it to an unknown independent during the warranty instead of being "normal" and just trusting Omega - "your watch was under warranty, why didn't you use it?!".
Im not talking about the warranty work - I agree that should go to Omega as it’s their warranty.
I’m talking about your options now. As things stand today you do have hindsight of what’s happened as you’re discussing it here and the warranty has expired. So, getting the watch back from Omega and using an independent is a real option you could consider.
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DSotW
·Well, you could get it serviced, not wear it and sell it immediately upon receiving it back, so it becomes someone else's problem (with the 2 year warranty).
If they are asking for money, then I would force them to say, in writing, that they will actually fix the problem.
Are Omega claiming that replacing the tube will fix the problem ?
Or is the case itself not drilled correctly ?
Or the tube from the factory is too short and the seals are not making contact, hence the water ingress at even the slightest amount of water ?
Or was the case, case back or bezel not milled correctly and is not seating correctly / not making contact with the rubber seal.
Or the tubes for the pushers ?
If they are asking for money, then I would force them to say, in writing, that they will actually fix the problem.
Are Omega claiming that replacing the tube will fix the problem ?
Or is the case itself not drilled correctly ?
Or the tube from the factory is too short and the seals are not making contact, hence the water ingress at even the slightest amount of water ?
Or was the case, case back or bezel not milled correctly and is not seating correctly / not making contact with the rubber seal.
Or the tubes for the pushers ?
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Ron_W
·Did Omega provide you the WR tests results of the previous repairs ? If it passed those tests, Omega fixed it correctly.
But if after 2 or 3 repairs the problem is still there Omega should also be thinking ; is argueing T&C Warranty expired helping my client here ?
Or ; WTH is this guy doing to his watch....
Difficult to make the call on this one.
So @Davidt advice is your best shot as changing just the tube is not very expensive and then the WR test will show if it is fixed or not. And he can research further if it fails the test.
But if after 2 or 3 repairs the problem is still there Omega should also be thinking ; is argueing T&C Warranty expired helping my client here ?
Or ; WTH is this guy doing to his watch....
Difficult to make the call on this one.
So @Davidt advice is your best shot as changing just the tube is not very expensive and then the WR test will show if it is fixed or not. And he can research further if it fails the test.
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DSotW
·
It would seem to me that the moisture was already present before the snow / glove incident ?
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Linas
·Im not talking about the warranty work - I agree that should go to Omega as it’s their warranty.
I’m talking about your options now. As things stand today you do have hindsight of what’s happened as you’re discussing it here and the warranty has expired. So, getting the watch back from Omega and using an independent is a real option you could consider.
Going forward, I won’t be using Omega again anyway, but also, to be fair, I don't really want to own this watch anymore in such circumstances. I guess Omega own messaging is mostly to blame here, because if they said "ohh we finally found what was causing issues all along, there was slight damage to the stem tube, we will fix it now and you won't have issues again, sorry we missed that earlier"... then it would restore some trust. But that is not what they are saying, they are saying "watch never had a problem sealing, it has damaged tube now, still does not have problem sealing". They are not saying it, but they are implying it is user error, like - maybe I have a crown open for some reason all the time. So not only are they not helping, with their value messaging, they are destroying my trust in both WR rating, testing and their service team abilities to sort it out.
Do you send it in through an AD? If so, when it arrives back from servicing, I'd put it in a glass of water at the AD and let it sit for at least 1 hour. This way, the AD knows you didn't mess with it and, if it's still got a problem, it should show up then.
Well, you could get it serviced, not wear it and sell it immediately upon receiving it back, so it becomes someone else's problem (with the 2 year warranty).
If they are asking for money, then I would force them to say, in writing, that they will actually fix the problem.
Are Omega claiming that replacing the tube will fix the problem ?
Or is the case itself not drilled correctly ?
Or the tube from the factory is too short and the seals are not making contact, hence the water ingress at even the slightest amount of water ?
Or was the case, case back or bezel not milled correctly and is not seating correctly / not making contact with the rubber seal.
Or the tubes for the pushers ?
Did Omega provide you the WR tests results of the previous repairs ? If it passed those tests, Omega fixed it correctly.
But if after 2 or 3 repairs the problem is still there Omega should also be thinking ; is argueing T&C Warranty expired helping my client here ?
Or ; WTH is this guy doing to his watch....
Difficult to make the call on this one.
So @Davidt advice is your best shot as changing just the tube is not very expensive and then the WR test will show if it is fixed or not. And he can research further if it fails the test.
What I do not understand is, if it is the tube, how did the water ingress happen so quickly with the little bit of snow in the glove, while it also passes the water proof test at Omega, unless the stem was pulled out or Omega are lying ?
It would seem to me that the moisture was already present before the snow / glove incident ?
My own theory is - the crown just doesn't seat well for whatever reason and sometimes randomly leaks when I move my whrist around... sometimes if no water is present it has no effect, sometimes when water is present it just happens to be sealed, so it is only the rare combination of it momentary not seating/sealing properly and presence of water that causes the issues. That is why the issues is kind of unpredictable and intermittent.
Like you mentioned - tube cut short, maybe something like that could cause it just not sealing consistently.
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Porteroso
·Rough read. Totally ridiculous. I would get the service, sell it as an Omega serviced watch with receipt, and move on.
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Linas
·Okay, so this is going from bad to worse… Omega just can’t keep their story straight.
Last time we spoke, I specifically asked what was wrong with the dial and what they meant by “oxidised". Their explanation was "it isn’t visible from the outside, dials corrode from underneath, and if they start flaking, there’s no point servicing the watch".
That strongly implied that if I didn’t replace the dial, they wouldn’t be able to warranty the service (they didn’t say it outright, but that was clearly the direction). So I asked whether the dial could be cleaned and reused, and they said they would get a second opinion.
Today I get an email saying - “Yes, the dial can be reused, but further markers may fall off, so we wouldn’t warranty it if you decline the replacement.”
Wait… further markers? That wording implies some markers have already fallen off?! How? When? Why wasn’t that mentioned earlier? When I sent the watch out, every single marker was in place and there was zero visible indication of anything lifting or failing.
If they had told me markers had fallen off, I wouldn’t be asking whether the dial can be kept - I would be asking how on earth that happened. Instead, this is the first time they have even hinted at anything like that.
I have now asked them for photos because I want to see what they’re talking about. At this point, I’m honestly leaning toward asking them to put the watch back together as‑is and taking it somewhere else. My trust in Omega has gone from low to negative.
Last time we spoke, I specifically asked what was wrong with the dial and what they meant by “oxidised". Their explanation was "it isn’t visible from the outside, dials corrode from underneath, and if they start flaking, there’s no point servicing the watch".
That strongly implied that if I didn’t replace the dial, they wouldn’t be able to warranty the service (they didn’t say it outright, but that was clearly the direction). So I asked whether the dial could be cleaned and reused, and they said they would get a second opinion.
Today I get an email saying - “Yes, the dial can be reused, but further markers may fall off, so we wouldn’t warranty it if you decline the replacement.”
Wait… further markers? That wording implies some markers have already fallen off?! How? When? Why wasn’t that mentioned earlier? When I sent the watch out, every single marker was in place and there was zero visible indication of anything lifting or failing.
If they had told me markers had fallen off, I wouldn’t be asking whether the dial can be kept - I would be asking how on earth that happened. Instead, this is the first time they have even hinted at anything like that.
I have now asked them for photos because I want to see what they’re talking about. At this point, I’m honestly leaning toward asking them to put the watch back together as‑is and taking it somewhere else. My trust in Omega has gone from low to negative.
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josiahg52
·That is truly ufortunate and frustrating to hear.
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Linas
·Yeah, but I am not imagining... they are just full of s... right?
If markers had actually fallen off the dial, the entire conversation would have been completely different. There is no way they would have said “we will see if the dial can be reused”. They would have immediately said, “nope, the markers are coming off, the dial must be replaced".
And at that point I would have said "hold on - what are you talking about? When it left me, every marker was in place. So let’s get to the bottom of how and when this supposedly happened".
Also, if we assume the watch never had issues or that Omega properly repaired it on the last three occasions, then how on earth would the dial oxidise to the point of markers falling off within a week of getting a bit moist from melting snow? It wasn’t salt water, it didn't sit on the bottom of the ocean for a year. If the dial is genuinely degraded to the point where markers are falling off, that sounds like years of moisture exposure - not a one‑off incident?
If markers had actually fallen off the dial, the entire conversation would have been completely different. There is no way they would have said “we will see if the dial can be reused”. They would have immediately said, “nope, the markers are coming off, the dial must be replaced".
And at that point I would have said "hold on - what are you talking about? When it left me, every marker was in place. So let’s get to the bottom of how and when this supposedly happened".
Also, if we assume the watch never had issues or that Omega properly repaired it on the last three occasions, then how on earth would the dial oxidise to the point of markers falling off within a week of getting a bit moist from melting snow? It wasn’t salt water, it didn't sit on the bottom of the ocean for a year. If the dial is genuinely degraded to the point where markers are falling off, that sounds like years of moisture exposure - not a one‑off incident?
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josiahg52
·Uh, yeah, this situation is surreal. It's like someone who knows nothing about watches or their service and repair "translating" what they have been told or read and then telling you. At this point how can you know what is actually going oj worth ypur watch? You cant. Anything they tell you going forward is suspect.
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BlackTalon
··This Space for RentWhat I do not understand is, if it is the tube, how did the water ingress happen so quickly with the little bit of snow in the glove, while it also passes the water proof test at Omega, unless the stem was pulled out or Omega are lying ?
It would seem to me that the moisture was already present before the snow / glove incident ?
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