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preacher
·I’m not expert in these models, crown is uncorrect, dial looks good to me but wait for best opinion
Opinion on this Zenith 146D
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sdd7820
·Thank you for sending this over. The crown looks to be a replacement correct?
See what you think of this one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenith-Vin...065758?hash=item1efff1f49e:g:d24AAOSwURhdo9F2
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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CaptainWinsor
·S sdd7820Thank you for sending this over. The crown looks to be a replacement correct?
Possible. Not all chronographs had a Zenith crown though and it’s hard to say when they started etc This pic is from an early 50’s Zenith catalog
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preacher
·Possible. Not all chronographs had a Zenith crown though and it’s hard to say when they started etc This pic is from an early 50’s Zenith catalog
I think all the chrono 146 gold need marked crown they where produced in ‘60.
The last One posted by CapitainWinsor is earlier ‘50.
The gold crown “Z inside star” is quite easy to find.
Caliber 146D is for chronograph with 2 subdials (45 min)
Caliber 146H is for chronograph with 3 subdials
Calibers 146DP and 146HP are the same but chronometre
For the dials as I said there are a lot reprinted, also many years ago, some in bad way and some better.
It’s difficoult to recognize it in some pics. I only say be careful
These watches are very nice and compared with steel chrono have lower price and are more easy to find, maybe they are undervalued maybe gold watches nowadays are considered less interesting
I know quite well the 146 and I can say to you that it is fantastic, it is very accurate and has a wonderful sound , very strong, it’s very sturdy, much more than el Primero!
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CaptainWinsor
·I wouldn’t not buy it because of an unmarked crown. They’re available and IMO it doesn’t matter. The case and dial and movement condition are far more important.
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CaptainWinsor
·This is from 1956-57 perhaps. Plain crown. Just for reference
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khanmu
·I periodically look at these Zenith chronos, unfortunately many of the ones I see especially on eBay seem to have redone or partly redone dials. I think there was/is a nice 3 reg 156 one on the OF private sales forum (I have no link to the seller), and I am keeping an eye on this 156d on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZENITH-J...750106?hash=item262abc715a:g:-ZgAAOSwFFVdux2S
I have however just recently acquired two Zenith grails, so it’ll probably be 2020 before I pluck up the courage to tell Mrs K I’ve bought another watch...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZENITH-J...750106?hash=item262abc715a:g:-ZgAAOSwFFVdux2S
I have however just recently acquired two Zenith grails, so it’ll probably be 2020 before I pluck up the courage to tell Mrs K I’ve bought another watch...
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pnwyankee
·I periodically look at these Zenith chronos, unfortunately many of the ones I see especially on eBay seem to have redone or partly redone dials. I think there was/is a nice 3 reg 156 one on the OF private sales forum (I have no link to the seller), and I am keeping an eye on this 156d on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZENITH-J...750106?hash=item262abc715a:g:-ZgAAOSwFFVdux2S
I have however just recently acquired two Zenith grails, so it’ll probably be 2020 before I pluck up the courage to tell Mrs K I’ve bought another watch...
This is a great example of how this whole process can drive you crazy
I have been following all along as a way of learning about vintage Zenith watches as a prelude to honing in on one I would like to own ( and that I can afford/justify/rationalize owning )
A key takeaway from this thread is the desirability of the Calibre 146 Zeniths
Now I have to go looking for information on Calibre 156 ( D )
🤨
PS Mr. Khanmu, this is not intended to make you feel bad about your post ( I realized it could be taken that way and that is not my intent.
Edited:
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Dan S
·This is a great example of how this whole process can drive you crazy
I have been following all along as a way of learning about vintage Zenith watches as a prelude to honing in on one I would like to own ( and that I can afford/justify/rationalize owning )
A key takeaway from this thread is the desirability of the Calibre 146 Zeniths
Now I have to go looking for information on Calibre 156 ( D )
🤨
Cal 146 and 156 are basically the same, just different sizes (14''' and 15''', respectively). Both made by Martel. Of the manual winding chronograph movements that Zenith used, the 143-6 by Excelsior Park is my personal favorite.
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pnwyankee
·Cal 146 and 156 are basically the same, just different sizes (14''' and 15''', respectively). Both made by Martel. Of the manual winding chronograph movements that Zenith used, the 143-6 by Excelsior Park is my personal favorite.
Dan,
In which Zenith references would one find the 143-6 by Excelsior Park?
Does you post imply that Zenith used movements that were not made "in-house"?
Bob
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Dan S
·Dan,
In which Zenith references would one find the 143-6 by Excelsior Park?
Does you post imply that Zenith used movements that were not made "in-house"?
Bob
None of the movements being discussed here were in-house. The 146/156 were made by Martel (also widely used by Universal Geneve with different caliber codes, e.g. UG285/287) and the 143-6 was made by Excelsior Park (also used by Gallet, again with a different caliber code e.g. EP4). Obviously there were some minor differences in the way the movements were finished, but the base movements were shared.
Edited:
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pnwyankee
·None of the movements being discussed here were in-house. The 146/156 were made by Martel (also widely used by Universal Geneve with different caliber codes, e.g. UG285/287) and the 143-6 was made by Excelsior Park (also used by Gallet, again with a different caliber code e.g. EP4). Obviously there were some minor differences in the way the movements were finished, but the base movements were shared.
Was the movement inside the original El Primero made in-house?
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Dan S
·Was the movement inside the original El Primero made in-house?
Yes. The El Primero movement was made by Zenith/Movado, and if you haven't read about the history of the first automatic chronograph movement, you should google the story and read about it. It's quite interesting. There was a three-way race between Zenith, Seiko, and a collaboration that included Heuer. Although Zenith named theirs "El Primero", it is still somewhat debated which was the first.
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pnwyankee
·Yes. The El Primero movement was made by Zenith/Movado, and if you haven't read about the history of the first automatic chronograph movement, you should google the story and read about it. It's quite interesting. There was a three-way race between Zenith, Seiko, and a collaboration that included Heuer. Although Zenith named theirs "El Primero", it is still somewhat debated which was the first.
Dan, I am aware of that story, that's why I wanted to make sure I wasn't confused about the extent to which Zenith relied on out-sourced movements.
Back to that - were all Zenith watches prior to the El Primero based on movements that were not in-house?
For instance: Zenith Sporto, the Zenith Cal 135?
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Dan S
·They made many movements in house, including the cal 135. Very fine movement, as I'm sure you know.
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Dan S
·This leads me to my noob question - do the knowledgeable members here collect watch models ( ie: Sporto, Defy, etc ) or do they collect movements ( ie: 146D, 135, etc )?
Thanks
My guess is that you will get diverse answers to that question, which is one of the things that makes the hobby fun. 👍
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Hijak
·Remember Zenith purchased Martel in 1958 so technically the later 146 movements were “ in house.”😀
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preacher
·This is incorrect!The DP and HP movements include several upgrades like flat coil and shock proofing but are not chronometer movements.
It would be better to say that 146DP and 146HP have chronometric features and that with this calibers zenith had ambitions of chronometer like we can see on the backside of Cairelli (146DP). But they are not chronometers
