Forums Latest Members

On My Bench - Seiko 6139-6002 - The First Automatic Chronograph

  1. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Apr 8, 2020

    Posts
    26,442
    Likes
    65,465
    Yes it's possible, but it would depend on the specific situation. For example there would have to be enough material surrounding the existing hole to enable a separate jewel to be installed, so if you look at the 7750 main plate above where I have added a bushing, I had to ream the hole large enough that there isn't a lot of material left to seat the bushing - jewel might be larger on the OD, and in that case it would be iffy trying to put a jewel there.

    On the 861 that I have shown, the barrel bridge is often worn in this location, and on the new 3861 they have added jewels foe the barrel arbor in both the main plate, and the hour recorder bridge. To me this is a worthwhile upgrade, as I bush these very frequently (will be doing another one today). But it doesn't have to be a jewel - even putting a bushing in is a huge step up from just making a hole in the plate. I use bronze bushings, so they wear much better than the soft brass plate does, and if it already had a bushing this would be 30 seconds job to replace it, instead of me having to spend 15 minutes.

    In this case there is no pure "performance" gain in that the watch won't run better with a jewels for the barrel arbor than it would with a new main plate with an unworn hole. The only time the barrel arbor moves in these holes are when you are manually winding the watch. In an automatic watch like the one Jim is working on, reducing friction here can assist the automatic winding in keeping the watch wound - most Seikos are very efficient anyway, so not sure it is a huge performance boost.

    Jewels in other areas may improve the performance. With a lot of old American made pocket watches, they came in different grades with different jewel counts. If the jewel count was low, say a 15 jewels version, it would often require a much stronger mainspring than say a 23 jewel version, because there is more friction in the 15 jewel watch. So the brands would make mainspring of differing strengths that would be used for the different models. If you have more jewels it can reduce the torque required, allowing a weaker spring, and less pressure on all the working parts - this can mean better performance and longer life for those parts.

    If I were designing the new Speedmaster movement, I would add jewels for the barrel arbor as they have done. I would then add jewels for the center wheel, so on in the main plate and one in the main bridge - these are currently just holes in the plate with no jewel or bushing. You could go on to add jewels in other places, but I don't think they would give you much benefit, and in some cases may cause problems.

    Cheers, Al
     
  2. jsducote Apr 8, 2020

    Posts
    899
    Likes
    1,211
    Thanks. It occurred to me (after I hit 'post') that it's probably been asked and answered a thousand times, that I should have searched first. Appreciate the comprehensive reply.
     
  3. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 8, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Now have the train assembled and the chrono parts fitted and checked.
    The donor pallet lever has been fitted and the balance dropped in and is ticking away nicely with one or two turns to wind it.

    Ticking.JPG

    A quick look on the timegrapher shows much better readings than the first lot, which looked like this:

    Screen Shot 2020-04-09 at 1.57.03 PM.png

    Now they look like this:

    TG_PreLube.JPG

    The pallet stones/escape wheel haven't been lubricated yet so I'll let that run for ten minutes or so for tracks get worn through the epilame, then I'll lubricate the pallet stones which should improve performance.

    In the meantime, I'll finish the "Foggy Seamaster" for @bindo so that he can collect it tonight.
     
    Eve, valkyrie_rider, ChrisN and 2 others like this.
  4. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 10, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    I'm feeling a bit tender today (hernia flare-up) so only doing some simple stuff.

    The crown stem assembly on this model carries a spring loaded sliding pinion used to rotate the internal bezel. This one was original but it had some bad rusting that needed to be cleaned up, as well as the hardened stem seal to be replaced.

    CrownStemPre.jpg

    The parts were stripped and the stem seal chipped off.

    CrownSeal.jpg

    Then some de-rusting and cleaning, a new lubricated seal, put back together and ready for another 50 years.

    CrownStemPost.jpg

    PS: Even though the pinion still has imperfect leaves (teeth), it will only be driving a plastic gear ring so a new one isn't really warranted.
     
    Eve, Longbow, timestamp and 3 others like this.
  5. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 11, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Cold wet and windy day outside, good to be inside working on a watch.

    But then..............I'm half way through installing the day/date mechanism and I hear:

    "Hey Darl', my tea maker isn't heating up, can you take a look at it for me?"

    IMG_4492.JPG

    So a couple of hours lost and the Breville BTM800XL is cactus.

    Ah well, there's always tomorrow.
     
    larryganz, ZIELSZIEK and zinengineer like this.
  6. ZIELSZIEK Apr 11, 2020

    Posts
    334
    Likes
    722
    That analog multimeter brought the nostalgia truck upon me. The first meter I recieved from my father was analog, because I did not get to "play around" with the nice Fluke 75 he had... I still keep one as a novelty and use it sometimes in lieu of an oscilloscope
     
    Longbow, Larry S and JimInOz like this.
  7. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 11, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Setting the hands.

    HandSetting.JPG
     
    Longbow, omegaswisst and ZIELSZIEK like this.
  8. ChrisN Apr 12, 2020

    Posts
    2,218
    Likes
    4,756
    I have a couple of analog meters but the Fluke 87V I bought some years ago is a brilliant piece of kit. I do like an analog meter though - here are a couple used for the Hi-Fi:
    meter.jpg
    wow.jpg
    The second one is a real oddity these days!

    Cheers, Chris
     
    ZIELSZIEK likes this.
  9. VetPsychWars Wants to be in the club! Apr 12, 2020

    Posts
    2,326
    Likes
    1,862
    I thought about getting an HP 410C to supplement the Simpson 260, but when an HP 6-1/2 digit bench meter came up for less, that was that.

    My home bench is mostly HP, but the scope is Tektronix.

    Tom
     
  10. jsducote Apr 13, 2020

    Posts
    899
    Likes
    1,211
    Sadly, my Heathkit VTVM is no longer offered. I'll have to see if my dad ever tossed it, but I bet it's still mounted to his bench in the garage.
     
  11. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 13, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Uh Oh.

    I got so involved in getting things back together I forgot to take photos. It's been running nicely for a day and a half now, so a final pic to finish off.

    6139Fin.JPG
     
    Eve, Marsimaxam, Longbow and 13 others like this.
  12. omegaswisst Apr 14, 2020

    Posts
    573
    Likes
    1,362
    Nice work Jim.

    It deserves a side by side comparison.

    20200414_155014.jpg
     
    Eve, loniscup and Als 27 like this.
  13. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 14, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Here's a better after shot. Hard to get everything in focus as you have to stop right down and I've lost the light as it's become rather overcast.

    IMG_2198.JPG
     
    Eve, Longbow, ChrisN and 8 others like this.
  14. Yak1 Apr 15, 2020

    Posts
    305
    Likes
    1,983
    That’s gorgeous work.
     
  15. Engee Apr 15, 2020

    Posts
    1,539
    Likes
    3,233
    Lovely to watch this happen, thanks. One small thing; the date looks slightly off in that final picture, or is that just the angle?
     
  16. JimInOz Melbourne Australia Apr 15, 2020

    Posts
    15,476
    Likes
    32,329
    Not the angle, the camera was straight on.

    I'd say it's a combination of plastic and metal parts in a 48 year old watch not functioning as well as the day they left the factory.

    But now that you've pointed it out my OCD has kicked in and I'll probably try to make it work like it did when it was new.
     
  17. Engee Apr 16, 2020

    Posts
    1,539
    Likes
    3,233
    I’m sorry to do that to you!
     
    FREDMAYCOIN and Als 27 like this.
  18. FREDMAYCOIN Apr 16, 2020

    Posts
    1,076
    Likes
    1,718
    Dibs
     
  19. FREDMAYCOIN Apr 16, 2020

    Posts
    1,076
    Likes
    1,718
    Can we ask what this service would set the owner back?
     
  20. valkyrie_rider Apr 16, 2020

    Posts
    444
    Likes
    699
    @JimInOz do you happen to have a timegrapher photo of the watch after fine tuning it?
    :)