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On My Bench - Seiko 6139-6002 - The First Automatic Chronograph

  1. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 12, 2020

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    So now that the Zenith crowd and fans of watches using famous Caliber 11 have just had the WIS equivalent of an apoplexy, let me continue.

    A nice 6139-6002 recently arrived and as advised by the owner, it was dead, not working, defunct etc etc.

    As this was a known, I didn't bother trying to start it, just straight into photos.

    A rather nice bezel, aged crystal and reasonable case shape when seen from the front.

    Front.JPG

    The caseback is pretty normal, and the information tels us that this watch dates to August 1971, so about 48 years and 6 months old.

    Back.JPG

    First thing was to get the caseback off. Nothing very interesting there.

    CasebackInner.JPG

    So let's have a quick look inside.

    The upper half of the movement looks OK, shows a little rubbing on the bridge but not too serious.

    MovementUpper.JPG

    The lower section is much the same, not too bad but the visible jewels are very dry and there's lots of "stuff" around the movement.

    MovementLower.JPG

    A closer look at the hairspring shows some coil binding. Oil? Magnetism? Or something else?

    Hairspring1.png

    A closer look and not much more is visible.............

    Hairspring2.png

    .............so I'll remove the balance assembly as it's easy to do while the movement is still in the case.

    With the balance removed, the problem is obvious.

    Blocked1.png

    Can't see it? It's the lump of metal blocking the pallet lever.

    Blocked2.png

    With my fine tweezers it's removed and bagged as "evidence".

    BrokenTip.png

    Now it's time to do some detective work.
     
  2. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 12, 2020

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    The pallet lever moved freely and no other damage is apparent, so the balance assembly is put back in to see if the movement will run.

    Onto the Timegrapher for a quick check.

    TG1DU.JPG TG2DD.JPG TG3CU.JPG TG4CR.JPG TG5CD.JPG TG6CL.JPG

    Nothing to be seen here, something is not right so on we go. Hmmm, I wonder if this affected things?

    Fibre.png

    Maybe not, but we will commence disassembly. With the movement out we start by removing the big hands (they're the easy ones) and storing them to prevent damage.

    HandsOff1.JPG

    Then the tiny Seconds hand goes into storage.

    HandsOff2.JPG

    The removal of the dial is next, and after loosening the two dial feet screws, the dial goes into hibernation.

    DialOff.JPG

    Which leaves us with the day and date wheels to remove. The retaining clip is held with clean Rodico in case it wants to depart the scene.

    DayDateWheelsOff.JPG

    With them safely stored we can turn the movement over to see if we can find the source of the broken particle.
    It doesn't take too long to find that the tooth of the Intermediate Fly-Back Lever has broken off.

    BrokenPoint.jpg

    Here's an example from another watch showing what it should look like.

    Example.jpg

    First success, we found something wrong!
    The movement will now be completely disassembled and normal inspection and cleaning will be carried out.
     
  3. verithingeoff

    verithingeoff Feb 12, 2020

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    Another thread on the follow list
     
  4. Engee

    Engee Feb 12, 2020

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    I’m delighted you’re doing this. I’m really getting into Seiko watches. Thank you.
     
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  5. befobe

    befobe Feb 12, 2020

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    Waou. Big contribution, thanks a lot. My 6139-6002 thanks you too!
     
    Edited Apr 17, 2020
    Duracuir1 likes this.
  6. Om3ga321

    Om3ga321 Feb 12, 2020

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    Love these rebuild stories.
    Keep up the great work.
     
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  7. rob#1

    rob#1 Feb 12, 2020

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    Great detective work :thumbsup: - I also love the stick figure, did it come with the timegrapher? ;)
     
  8. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 12, 2020

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    Hi Jim,

    When you get this disassembled and cleaned, pay attention to the holes in the main plate and bridge that the barrel arbor go through - sort of notorious wear points on these. If these are worn and the barrel can tip too much, it will need to be addressed.

    A friend of mine has had custom jewels made so that he can open up the worn holes and install jewels in both these locations.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  9. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 12, 2020

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    It's the top off a child's acrylic knitting needle that I cut off. I use the other bit as a non-marring stick/probe/helper.

    Thanks Al, noted.
    As the highest loaded holes it would have been a good idea to at least bush them, although these movements were being built to a budget and expected to be maintained whereas most Seiko owners seemed to take pride in the fact that "my watch has been running for 20 years and never needed a service".
    I'll let you know what I find.
     
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  10. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 12, 2020

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    Yep...the two most common brands I hear that comment about are Seiko and Rolex. And as a result there are a ton of Seiko and Rolex out there that worn to crap...
     
  11. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 12, 2020

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    Just took a couple of quick shots during disassembly.
    The arbor holes look OK, if a little gungy. The one in the plate has some nice dried grease, or garnish? I'm not sure.

    Snap_001.jpg

    The barrel bridge arbor hole looks to be good too, and it's even bushed.

    Snap_002.jpg

    Snap_001xx.jpg

    Back to work now.
     
  12. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 12, 2020

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    Done with disassembly.

    PartsOut.JPG

    All of the parts with the exception of the Intermediate Flyback Lever look fine, if somewhat dry and dirty.

    Seiko, for some reason, has staked the chrono levers and a few other items to the main parts, so they are non-replaceable, it requires a whole new parent assembly.

    Luckily I have a donor movement on hand so that'll save some time, no waiting for parts to come from Spain, UK, Philippines, USA etc.

    Donor.JPG

    It will need rust removal and cleaning, but as it's approaching 40ºC right now in my watch cleaning room (AKA garage) it'll all have to wait until Saturday (tomorrow is booked for gardening and stuff :().
     
  13. Larry S

    Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Feb 13, 2020

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    I have a friend with a late 80s Sub who spews that nonsense. I’ve been begging him to send it in for service. No amount of explanation can sway him. He thinks it’s immortal.
     
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  14. sxl2004

    sxl2004 Feb 13, 2020

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    that will be a fun “One owner” watch with all original parts.
    Ready to go to the safe deposit box. No one wears valuable Rolex anymore.
    :D
     
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  15. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Feb 13, 2020

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    I don't usually tell by looking at the holes directly, since a slight bit of oval on the hole can be tough to see directly.

    Look for signs that the barrel is tipping in the movement, so shiny wear spots between the main plate and barrel bridge, or material missing where the ratchet wheel rides from tipping and "digging in" to the bridge.

    Also, when you start assembling the watch back together, mount the barrel and barrel bridge only, and screw the bridge down. Then take you brass/bronze tweezers and try to lift up on the edge of the barrel - if it tips enough to be close to touching something, then it will need repairing.

    Cheers, Al
     
  16. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 22, 2020

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    Well, while ordering a new crystal, seals and gaskets, I found a jewel kit for the barrel arbor, so that part's on hold until they arrive.
     
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  17. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 22, 2020

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    In the meantime I've used a sharpened needle to remove the rust scabs from the levers.

    RustRemoval.jpg

    Next week I'll get some rust removing solution to get rid of the staining.
     
  18. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 22, 2020

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    Next I had a look at the crown/stem and seal as this is usually where water gets in and therefore rust happens!

    After a run in the ultrasonic, it's a bit easier to see what's going on.

    This will need to be taken apart and rectified.

    CrownStemRust.jpg
     
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  19. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 22, 2020

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    While I was rust hunting I checked the pushers. Here's an example, there's a lot of crud in there (looking down into the inside of the pusher).

    PusherGunk.jpg

    So off with the old seal (almost had to be chipped off).

    PusherSeals.jpg

    To remove the gunk inside the pusher (ultrasonic didn't do it) I put the pusher in a collet on the lathe, made a scraper from a soft copper wire with the tip flattened. This loosened most of the crud and rust solution will clean up the remains.

    PusherCleaning.JPG

    Enough for today, I'll have to clean up the rusty crud on my bench before I settle down with a beer.
     
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  20. JimInOz

    JimInOz "Helpful Hints from Heloise" of bracelet cleaning. Feb 24, 2020

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    While we wait on the postman.

    Teaser.

    Teaser.jpg