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OMEGA Apollo-Soyuz: The hidden truths

Apollo-Soyuz
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oddboy oddboy
Why was the watch commemorating the joining of Soviet and US spacecraft released in Italy anyway?

Honest question.


in the 1970s Omega was not considered one of the most important watchmaking houses but one of many ... the reputation that Omega today gained in the 70s was far away light years. At that time Omega sales in Italy were good, the Italian market was close and especially the local partner, DeMarchi was perfect (Turin's watchmaker's family) was able to welcome the initiatives of this Swiss home that had recently won the race of space...
 
lowen
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How can you say that??????????????????????????????????

De Marchi was perfect?????????????????????
The Omegamania auction? Everybody knows what happened there.
You have no idea about what you're saying. NO IDEA.

Ok, as you can see on my last posts, I was very positive and wanted to help.
I see now that it is completly USEFUL.

Ciao, discussion closed for me.
 
TsoloT
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oddboy oddboy
Why was the watch commemorating the joining of Soviet and US spacecraft released in Italy anyway?

Honest question.
It was understood that DiMarchi themselves asked for the commerative watch to be produced to satisfy a perceived demand in Italy !
This was an Italian marketing exercise nothing to do with Omega and there are lots of other examples
 
Apollo-Soyuz
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lowen lowen
How can you say that??????????????????????????????????

De Marchi was perfect?????????????????????
The Omegamania auction? Everybody knows what happened there.
You have no idea about what you're saying. NO IDEA.

Ok, as you can see on my last posts, I was very positive and wanted to help.
I see now that it is completly USEFUL.

Ciao, discussion closed for me.

I'm not saying this but dozens of Italian Omega retailers for a thousand years.
I never said that Demarchi is perfect! I repeat the concept that if Demarchi made mistakes it is obvious that all responsibilities are only of Omega. OMEGA is trusted by its local partner and the written agreement I have explained perfectly.
ps. Maybe it's going to be my elementary school English but in your posts I could not see the help you're talking about, the exact opposite. Continue to defend Omega to sword deal. In all your posts is the usual big invitation of those who do not want to know or who has second goals ....
omega did not do things right, at the beginning of the distribution of Apollo-Soyuz no buyer was informed that the authentic orolies belonged to a certain lot of serial numbers (I have the written testimonials of the retailers!). why does Omega not tell me that association c is between the movement number and the number engraved on the back of the watch?
Simple, these documents do not exist!
Omega lacks too much information and 10 years ago she clearly adjusted the shot by listing how some of the 500 Apollo-Soyuz could have been.

I sent you an e-mail with my personal contacts. I'm looking forward to knowing yours to disturb you ...

Thank you
 
Tubber
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SpeedyPhill SpeedyPhill
馃摉 It's all about passion for spaceflight
Passionate Italians... why is there a BIS-Italia section ?
http://www.bis-space.com/branches/international/italy

An Italian wrote this great book... it's all about passion...
.
1975_ASTP.jpg
That is a really well researched and presented book. I was lucky enough to get a copy. Marco started a thread about that last year.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-apollo-soyuz-the-first-guide.35718/
I never could get that Issuu link to work.
 
BASE1000
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In my opinion there are three facts to consider:

1.
As far as I know there never was one Apollo-Soyuz showing up without an engraved number on the outside of the caseback between 1 and 500. Ergo every single watch with the engraved caseback number is an unique Soyuz and with this an original Soyuz. There were never seen two casbacks with the same engraved number as far as I know. This underlines that Omega produced a limited number of 500 cases, dials and caseback of which each one is completely unique. With this it becomes clear that there are no replacement or spare parts assembled together but that it was the plan to produced 500 Soyuz鈥檚 and Omega produced 500 numbered cases, of which each is an original.

2.
The factory stated by itself that DiMarchi at the time had the official authorization to assemble Soyuz models. Assembling with authorization of the factory a limited watch which consists of numbered parts is nothing but assembling an original.

3.
Very early Speedmasters such as 2915鈥檚 and 2998-1鈥檚 were assembled In 1957 to 1960 not by Omega either but by Lemania in Orient. Everyone who ever asked for an extract for that period from Omega knows that. Nobody ever had the idea to denie that this watches are originals. Nobody thinks 2915鈥檚 or early 2998鈥檚 are franken Speedmasters. As Omega confirmed that DeMarchi had the right to assemble the Soyuz (see above no. 2) it is rediculous to denie that these are real Soyuz鈥檚. The only difference between the 400 and the 100 is that DeMarchi probably never updated Omega about the movements numbers they used for the assemblage. It is the same with Lemania who never updated Omega with specifications about the Speedmasters. They assembled Speedmasters from movements they received in batches from the Omega factory, dials they received from Singer, cases from HF or others, hands from Fiedler, bezels from I do not know whom. All together became some of the most sought after Speedmasters in the world.


My conclusion: A real Soyuz is not recognized by its movement number but solely by its caseback number. 400 Soyuz received their cal 861 built in in the factory in Biel and 100 received their cal 861 built in in Milano. The Omega extract, and this is the matter we talk about here, is not a valid document or source to say wether a 2915, an early 2998 or a Soyuz is a real one wether it is not.
Edited:
 
TsoloT
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Well an astonishing point has now arisen

All Watches have a unique external number engraved on the back of the watch and those numbers are sequential and bracketed by 2 unique symbols
If the case backs were merely service replacements how come these watches have sequentially numbered backs with the symbols either side


they are part of the 500 series as originally manufactured and until Omega produce ANY INVOICE AT ALL Contradictory to this it must be assumed that Omega used its own parts or it鈥檚 agent used the parts sent specifically for assemblage to make the last 100
 
micampe
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Apollo-Soyuz Apollo-Soyuz
those 100 lost or unlisted clocks from Omaga-Demarchi are on the wrist of 100 Omega customers who 40 years ago year decided to contribute to the current success of this company.

Hilarious. No, your father just decided to buy a watch. It just happens that now that watch is valuable; I bet you wouldn鈥檛 be making the same fuss for a common Seamaster.

Apollo-Soyuz Apollo-Soyuz
ps. Maybe it's going to be my elementary school English but in your posts I could not see the help you're talking about, the exact opposite. Continue to defend Omega to sword deal. In all your posts is the usual big invitation of those who do not want to know or who has second goals ....
On the contrary. I think he is being extremely reasonable despite your attacks and unwillingness to listen to any arguments that don鈥檛 simply agree with you. He provided facts and comments on the facts. You just keep shouting the same assertions and vague statements with no firm facts backing them.

I am Italian too, and sadly I recognize this attitude of entitlement and unreasonable hubris of many of my fellow citizens. You showed in this conversation that the only way you know how to argue is keep shouting louder.
 
Apollo-Soyuz
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TsoloT TsoloT
Well an astonishing point has now arisen

All Watches have a unique external number engraved on the back of the watch and those numbers are sequential and bracketed by 2 unique symbols
If the case backs were merely service replacements how come these watches have sequentially numbered backs with the symbols either side


they are part of the 500 series as originally manufactured and until Omega produce ANY INVOICE AT ALL Contradictory to this it must be assumed that Omega used its own parts or it鈥檚 agent used the parts sent specifically for assemblage to make the last 100

Beautiful question, Congratulations!

In this reflection there is the essence and the sense of sharing some "hidden truths" among enthusiasts who have one purpose ... that's to understand! To this question I have no answer but we always return to the starting point ... Omega has entrusted to the Italian partner, Demarchi Brothers, the work of assembling, producing and distributing Omega watches. The Apollo-Soyuz have been assembled in Italy and until now we all agree, I think the back of the watch was punched right after the assembly.

As far as I know, there are no reports of two identical watches with the same number engraved on the bottom of the watch.
 
Apollo-Soyuz
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On the contrary. I think he is being extremely reasonable despite your attacks and unwillingness to listen to any arguments that don鈥檛 simply agree with you. He provided facts and comments on the facts. You just keep shouting the same assertions and vague statements with no firm facts backing them.

I am Italian too, and sadly I recognize this attitude of entitlement and unreasonable hubris of many of my fellow citizens. You showed in this conversation that the only way you know how to argue is keep shouting louder.[/QUOTE]


Reluctance to listen?
I'm sorry to contradict you, but I confirm that I have read with great respect and attention every message, but for the basic law of education I have allowed myself to answer. Did I hurt?
I cry the same thing because this is the story of Apollo Soyuz and because Omega's homage and some of her faithful are true, the truth continues to be unveiled. Some members of the forum have advised me to abandon this initiative and to content myself with what Omega has said ... ehhh no, too easy!
You do not know the time I've devoted to rebuilding the whole story of this watch (my first post in this discussion)
And now you come to me saying I'm vague?
-When did I request the bills of my watch at the Bienna Museum?
- After 100 e-mails exchanged with the head of the Omega Museum
-After having searched, found and contacted Italian holders of the Apollo-Soyuz out of range
- after listening to the testimonies of yesterday and today collectors and having them compared with the affirmations of the Omega retailers
I'm sorry if my statements appeared to you "superb", I certainly did not want to be! I wanted to share your research with you in the hope that you could find something that probably had escaped to me ...
Invitations to abandon are not bad ...
 
Apollo-Soyuz
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henrikaa henrikaa
Great idea!

this would solve all the doubts but Omega should justify some constructive differences in this clock ... (movement, buttons, etc ...)
to this day it remains the most intelligent and common sense solution ... it wonders if someone some day ... wants to start ...
 
henrikaa
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Apollo-Soyuz Apollo-Soyuz
this would solve all the doubts but Omega should justify some constructive differences in this clock ... (movement, buttons, etc ...)
to this day it remains the most intelligent and common sense solution ... it wonders if someone some day ... wants to start ...
You seem to have an opinion on the LE and have done some empirical research. Why don鈥檛 commence the work with a register and I am sure others will follow suit and provide whatever data they have available?
 
mikechi22
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Tubber Tubber
There seems to be quite a difference of opinion between the two main protagonists in this thread. @lowen states 400 watches were produced and assembled by Omega in Biel and @Apollo-Soyuz is adamant 500 were all assembled in Italy by De Marchi.
Yes! That鈥檚 a key point. Who did assemble the 400?
 
Professor
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A Bulova just got a huge price at auction because it was a privately owned watch carried by a Apollo Astronaut who used it on a moonwalk because the watch they had been issued blew out its crystal in the vacuum .
I forget how much it fetched, my head for numbers doesn't go that high.
 
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