OMEGA Apollo-Soyuz: The hidden truths

forgive my english...i'm italian

Hello to all,
I would like to share with you this research I made on this very rare Omega watch. Regarding to this Apollo-Soyuz model watch there have always been too many "hidden truths" that, after 41 years after the birth of this amazing clock, I felt the need to find them out.


Brief Outline of History
For the Distribution Of its watches, on October 28th, 1970, OMEGA CH stipulated and agreement with some European companies. In Italy the Exclusive Distribution was entrusted to F.lli De Marchi Ltd based in Turin in Via Gioberti. Omega gave The Exclusive Right to the company to sell and distribute in Italy The watches branded OMEGA, preventing an Italian Any other dealer to buy directly from OMEGA CH.

THE SAME distributor dealt whith:

· Promote the Distribution of the brand

· ensure Maintenance service

· use the trademark for advertising

· Organize a maintenance service and repair to ensure international Warranty

· keep a permanent inventory of the Main Models of OMEGA’s collection

The Italian distributor, Fratelli De Marchi, was in charge Also for the important task of making SOME models of watch cases and bracelets suitable for the peculiar taste of its customers and to make the internal movements Operation of the watches imported From OMEGA Headquarter in Switzerland.

The production of watches through local partner (Licensed OMEGA) Had Been maintained until the quality directives of OMEGA were satisfied,

without forgetting That the physical production of All Movements Dedicated To New watches were made in Bienne (CH). The reasons why OMEGA decided to continue this type of activity, ended in 2000, are unknown.

That’s why the watches called "OMEGA Apollo-Soyuz-Ita" arrved to the Italian dealers of Omega.

Today considerations
The assembly of many Apollo-Soyuz watches was run by F.lli De Marchi (OMEGA partners), which assembled as they needed a number of watches Apollo Soyuz for the Italian market.

The Apollo Soyuz identified as "made in licensed" have the serial numbers ranging from 31.xxx.xxx to 33.xxx.xxx, the bottoms were regularly stamped with its own progressive serial number and many of them have buttons from 5.0 mm . in diameter.

Today OMEGA CH has no intention to recognize as official these Apollo-Soyuz-De Marchi although in the 70s their Italian partner held the full right to distribute and, as in this case, assemble the OMEGA watch (MADE IN LICENSE).

Omega CH, through the extract archive, is not able to go back to the numbers of the inserted movements within these Apollo-Soyuz-DeMarchi, nor by the number engraved on the back. We are facing a model repudiated by the Swiss mother house.

Without any concrete reference master, it is easier to support the non-existence of these watches (Apollo-Soyuz-De Marchi) than to recognize that Omega made a mistake.

Because of the agreement made between Omega CH and local partners, we find ourselves facing with a delicate and controversial issue; because of this unjustified behavior, existing owners of Apollo-Soyuz-DeMarchi literally feel cheated and demand for clarification. It would be fair and proper to categorize what a local but yet official partner of Omega realized 37 years ago.

In the absence of prior arrangements, no company in the world agrees to sell its product, without checking and approved a sample, no one.


Conclusions and Considerations
It’s false to say that the correct number of movements inserted in watches Apollo-Soyuz are BETWEEN 39180000 and 39181000

The extract archive of Omega not 'Able to determine whether this or Another movement was used for Omega Apollo-Soyuz because SOME assemblies were made directly in Turin by Fratelli De Marchi.

So far, there are no stamped bottoms with the same serial number.

OMEGA CH does not have an official chart that links the number of the watch movement with the number engraved on the case back

for the last point above we have the demonstration when on 14th and 15th April 2007 OMEGAMANIA, run by Antiquorum, sold at auction N'2 watches considered Apollo-Soyuz "Originals" from OMEGA mother house, but presenting serial numbers different from what the original site declared (No. 39927934 and no. 45585460).


Conclusions and Other Considerations

· The movement of my Apollo-Soyuz, number 31.31x.xxx, According to Tables Omega-Cronomaddox- Hartmann-sweeping by hand (see the dedicated section), should be made between 1971 and 1972. Involuntarily the Director of OMEGA Museum in Biel found the Documentation Submitted to the movement in my watch, confirming me that this specific serial number belonged to a group of 158 pieces delivered 12th June 1975 (see Letter SIGNED OMEGA).

· The head of the Omega Museum in Biel furthermore supports that to grant a local partner the freedom to PRODUCE watches was an error, Even though the Agreements between the parties did not forbid it (SEE on the site "Official Gazette of the European Community")

· Omega decided to leave everything to chance, demonstrating total disregard to this issue; inexplicable attitude that causes disappointment to those whom 37 years ago showed his confidence by buying their product.

Another unresolved issue!

The head of the OMEGA Museum in Biel, Mr. Brandon, sent me a copy of the invoice of my watch.

The comparative chart found on the web, associates the movement of my watch (31.316.xxx) to a production between 1971 and 1972. The manager of the MUSEUM did I have the invoice of my watch despatched from OMEGA to Italian partners of those years (Fratelli De Marchi). In this bill, dated 1975, shows my watch movement number near to a written label "Speedmaster Professional".

Mr. Brandon, to make a comparison, sent me a second bill (dated 1976) that, in his opinion, would have to prove that all the Apollo Soyuz watches are labeled "APOLLO" next to the serial number.

Coming into possession of the invoice at my watch I was able to prove that the movement added to my clock was not built in 1971 (or in 1972 as claimed by other private inventories) but rather in 1975, the year of production of the Apollo Soyuz watches.

This "new discovery" disproves all those lists published on the web, considered reliable in recovering the production year of OMEGA movements.

In my case, it was not!


Simone Zucchelli


that's it...

 

Welcome to the forum, great first post!

I am interested to see how this thread develops. The last Soyuz discussion was a while back.

 

We need more of this kind of threads here !

Great job, welcome to the forum

Soyuz remains a Grail watch for me - one day I hope I will add one to my collection

 

Fantastic post full stop! Welcome to the forum, stick around, we’d love to learn more.

All the best

Nathan

 

Interesting findings! Keep it up

 

Thats what I call a first post Picture and all

 

Have to agree with @kov, we definitely need more posts like this. The Apollo-Soyuz is a special Speedmaster and there is a few of them kicking around on the forum.

 

Congrats to ian

 

Sapphire?

 

Not sure what you mean by Sapphire ...the Ian congrats is in respect of an observation

 

That watch looks like a sapphire model not a hesalite.

 

Did they make sapphire glass for that model ?

 

How about the other 2 underneath do they look sapphire?

 

Please see the above replies
Thank you

 

Hello everyone,

Usually I don't write here, not because I don't like the forum but just because of a lack of time...
And I'm realizing that I'm wrong, because this forum is becoming (and has always been) more and more interesting.
I've read also the other post on the Seamaster FAP, with a lot of attention, but this is another story.

What I would like to do here (or try to do) is to establish a fair statement of this Apollo Soyuz issue, that I know quite well.
I've always loved this watch, maybe the most attractive Speedmaster limited series ever made by Omega (together with the Tribute to Astronauts 1969), and we have studied this case during the Moonwatch Only work sessions in Biel.

I know very well the story of our friend @Apollo-Soyuz, who is very disappointed with the fact that his watch has never been recognized by Omega as an official Apollo Soyuz one. To be honest, I don't remember whether he bought it new from an Italian dealer in the 70s or as a second hand watch later. But it doesn't have any importance at this stage.

My first statement is that I really understand his position... That's pretty fair: he bought a watch, being convinced that it was a 'standard' Apollo Soyuz model. Or better: he couldn't imagine that years after, someone, or something or ... who knows ... would have stated that this watch was not 'correct'. Trying to demonstrate that his watch is correct is nothing but a very natural reaction to this kind of situation.

But that is not reality.

First of all, I think that @Apollo-Soyuz is not updated with some information:
- Brandon Thomas is not the Director of the Omega Museum anymore, he left many years ago and has been replaced by Petros Protopapas.
- We all know that the Hartmann or Maddox tables are not correct. Those guys have done a huge work (and we all have to be very grateful for that... they just open the doors of our passion!) but it has been done many years ago and since that period we have been able to complete those data and to build up more reliable information. So please, with full respect for the work done, don't consider those tables anymore.

Going back to the De Marchi story, some information are correct, but some are not. It is true that Omega had an important agreement with the Italian family-owned De Marchi company in Turin. It was in fact a broad agreement whose main objective was the exclusive distribution of Omega watches in Italy. And it is true to say that this agreement provided for some other activity, like the local production of some accessories, or eventually the assembly of some watches. We know that De Marchi had an important activity on Omega Dynamics for instance. And we are touching here the real problem of the story.

You have 2 opposite ways of seeing things:

1) The De Marchi situation: I am quite comfortable in saying that both the period (1970s) and the country (Italy) are not synonymous with precise procedures and clear organizations... Just for those who don't know: I've been living and working in Italy for more than 20 years now, and I love this country and Italian people, no doubt about that. They are extremely efficient and smart in almost everything. But maybe such an agreement was not precise enough, and De Marchi had some room to be ... let's say ... more creative than expected.

2) From the Omega stand point, it is obvious that any local initiative from De Marchi that was not fully authorized and documented by the HQ in Biel can not be considered as a 'factory' product. That is 100% normal, logical and justified.

We have worked a lot on all Speedmasters series for the Moonwatch Only book, in collaboration with the museum and the archives, and here are the results of our research:

- It is commonly accepted that Omega produced 500 pieces of the Apollo-Soyuz series. Actually we found just 400 watches, invoiced to De Marchi (and listed as 'Apollo Soyuz' on the documents). All these 400 watches in the delivery invoices have movement numbers between 39.180. xxx and 39.181.xxx. Full stop.

- You have to know that the Apollo Soyuz model was anything but a success in 1976. For a simple reason: Italian collectors didn't like the fact that there was no 'Speedmaster' inscription on the dial... That could be a reason why Omega, who initially wanted to produce 500 watches, finally decided to sell only 400.

- For some reason, at some point, Omega may have sent Apollo Soyuz spare parts to De Marchi. That's pretty sure. But nobody knows if it was for a local production in Turin by De Marchi or not. Again, there were much less quality controls and procedures at that time, and it could be that Omega (or their suppliers), who had already manufactured dials, pushers, casebacks for let's say 500 watches, decided to send everything to De Marchi just in case Italian customers would need to change some part during a service. Anyway, the Apollo Soyuz model was only for the Italian market, so there was no need to keep the parts in Biel... Just think about it... Nothing special...

- The spare movements that have been sent by Omega to De Marchi are not listed as 'Apollo Soyuz'. Never. We have audited all the invoices during a very broad period of time in order to find some 'Apollo Soyuz' movements sent to Italy. There are not. Full stop. In particular, we have identified the serial numbers that are mentioned by our friend @Apollo-Soyuz on the invoices, and they are listed as standard 861 movements, nothing more.

- We know that after a first negative impact on the market, Italian people started to like the model and to buy it. And that could be the explanation of the problem...: 400 models sold out, and De Marchi decided to assembly other watches, just because they had the spare parts! Again, just think about it: nothing special...

- Well, that's not 100% true. Nothing special for De Marchi, because the Omega agreement was not restrictive enough and (theoretically) allowed them to assembly something locally. But maybe Omega didn't authorize this activity (or even didn't know it) for these Apollo Soyuz 'local' pieces. Who knows? De Marchi doesn't exist anymore and Omega has no evidence of such authorizations.

Conclusion

The only official Apollo Soyuz models are the factory ones. There is absolutely no doubt about it. And they are all in the 39.180. xxx and 39.181.xxx range.

The other watches have not been produced by Omega. This is absolutely certain, and this is a very fair reason to consider that they are not official and that they can not be recognized as official by Omega. They are the result of a local production, authorized or not (but at this stage there are no proof of any authorization, ..., or better: the only concrete information tell us that just spare parts and in particular standard 861 movements have been sent to De Marchi in Italy, nothing more).

Again, I fully understand the disappointment of a customer who brought the watch by an Italian dealer at that time, convinced to buy a factory watch (and probably the dealer didn't know anything about this story), and who realized years after that his watch is not recognized by the brand. I'm sorry for that. Bad luck. But that is just reality. There is no way, in my opinion, that Omega can consider these watches as original. The problem is not Omega. It is De Marchi.


Hope this explanation will be useful. Thanks for reading.


PS: I didn't talk about the watches sold during Omegamania by Antiquorum... just because there is nothing say...

 

As someone extremely interested in the Soyuz debate this thread looks like it will live up to my expectations. Thanks @lowen for posting.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this one develops...i'm sure the information gained here will be beneficial for all involved, including me.

It is an extremely interesting story, and just adds to the allure of the Soyuz imo!

 

Thanks to all for the compliments
I believe and hope that one day OMEGA CH can confirm the mistake made but I have many doubts about it
I also made a web site that includes other details about this watch though ... it's all in Italian ...
https://apollo-soyuz.weebly.com
www.apollo-soyuz.ml

thank you

 

Wowww ...
Seems I have wasted my time writing a detailed answer ... since you insist talking about an Omega mistake.

There is no Omega mistake at all.
I am very sorry I was not clear enough.