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Omega 30t2 RG

J
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Hi all. First Post here in a while.
As a collector of Omega watches, generaly from the 60s, I find myself in unfamiliar territory.
I've been offered a ref: 2505-10 ( 'jumbo' case ) with a 30 T2 RG movement dated 1947 (11 mil)
The dial seems authentic and is signed 'officially Certified Chronometer' in that order...
On the photos I can't see the last two letters of the word Chronometer so I'm not sure yet if they are 'RE' or 'ER' the hands, of course, are obscuring this vital piece of information !
So, the question is ; was the jumbo cased ref: 2505-10 ever available with a chrono grade 30 T2.
Any help or pointing me in the right direction for more info, would be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
John
 
gatorcpa
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J John Richardson
I've been offered a ref: 2505-10 ( 'jumbo' case ) with a 30 T2 RG movement dated 1947 (11 mil)
The dial seems authentic and is signed 'officially Certified Chronometer' in that order...
“Officially Certified” on a late 1940’s watch would give me cause for concern.

To my knowledge, Omega tested movements only in house at that time. They began to submit movements to the official bureau beginning in the early 1950’s, a few years later.

I am not familiar with the Ref. 2505, so I can’t comment on whether the RG chronometer movement was originally found in this model.

Pictures would be be most helpful.
gatorcpa
 
kyle L
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
“Officially Certified” on a late 1940’s watch would give me cause for concern.

To my knowledge, Omega tested movements only in house at that time. They began to submit movements to the official bureau beginning in the early 1950’s, a few years later.

I am not familiar with the Ref. 2505, so I can’t comment on whether the RG chronometer movement was originally found in this model.

Pictures would be be most helpful.
gatorcpa

They do exist with the officially certified text - this one was on eBay a little while ago. I also have one 66 serial numbers away! This would be from a 2364 though, not a 2505 like the OP is asking about.

Screenshot_20230823-092523.png Screenshot_20230823-092515.png
 
gatorcpa
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kyle L kyle L
They do exist with the officially certified text - this one was on eBay a little while ago.
Good to know.

Thanks!
gatorcpa
 
mac_omega
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Sorry, I am a bit late to the party.

Ref. 2505 was not equipped with 30 Rg movements.

Its likely a recased chronometre movement which was left over after the gold case was scrapped.

If you can send me a straight on high resolution photo of the dial I can let you know if at least the dial is in original condition and not re-printed.

And please let me know the movement serial#. I can check it in my private archiv of serial numbers. You can send me the serial# through private message if you don´t want to reveil it publicly.
 
Franco
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I have never seen a ref. 2505 with 30T2Rg or 30T2SCRg movements. The were first introduced in 1946 - so in theory there isa temporal overlap with the 30Rgs production. Should they exist, they would have a dedicated Chronometre dial, because of the large diameter of the 2505, possibly 33-34 mm diameter - much larger than those of the 2367-66-65-64.

Any image from the front? The dial could have been recased with the movement, but then it should be visible a gap between the border of the dial (29.5 to 31.5 mm diameter according to the reference) and the edge of the plexy. Because the 2505 is nearly 3 mm larger than the 2366 and about 5 mm larger than the 2364.

A better hi-res image of the front - in the case - could help.

PS: the 2505-10 - the tenth series - I have seen are from the early 50s, most of the 30Rg production is before that.
Edited:
 
J
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Thanks all...I was working on forwarding the photos that I have...quality not good, frankly...but I will be seeing the watch this weekend...
Photos attached...(I hope)
 
IMG-20230820-WA0001.jpg IMG-20230820-WA0008.jpg IMG-20230820-WA0009.jpg
J
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mac_omega mac_omega
Sorry, I am a bit late to the party.

Ref. 2505 was not equipped with 30 Rg movements.

Its likely a recased chronometre movement which was left over after the gold case was scrapped.

If you can send me a straight on high resolution photo of the dial I can let you know if at least the dial is in original condition and not re-printed.

And please let me know the movement serial#. I can check it in my private archiv of serial numbers. You can send me the serial# through private message if you don´t want to reveil it publicly.
Thanks...the serial number is : 11054857
 
J
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I know what I'm looking at when buying Omegas...but this one has intrigued me...the dial looks OK...from the font style and it fits the larger case...but, instinct told me to walk away, which was my intention...but...what if it's a rare beast...thats why I've thrown it over to the forum...
I will be seeing the watch on Friday evening and will take some more detailed photos...unless 'chronometer' is spelt like this...and there are other obvious discrepancies.
Thanks to you all for your thoughts.
 
Tony C.
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Sorry, but it appears to be a redial, and in any case not a dial associated with 30T2Rg chronometres. And as @mac_omega has confirmed that the case reference never housed chronometers, it means that it is a misrepresented "frankenwatch", assembled from parts that would not have left the factory in that combination. If you have the option to return it to the seller, you would be well-advised to do so.
Edited:
 
J
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Franco Franco
I have never seen a ref. 2505 with 30T2Rg or 30T2SCRg movements. The were first introduced in 1946 - so in theory there isa temporal overlap with the 30Rgs production. Should they exist, they would have a dedicated Chronometre dial, because of the large diameter of the 2505, possibly 33-34 mm diameter - much larger than those of the 2367-66-65-64.

Any image from the front? The dial could have been recased with the movement, but then it should be visible a gap between the border of the dial (29.5 to 31.5 mm diameter according to the reference) and the edge of the plexy. Because the 2505 is nearly 3 mm larger than the 2366 and about 5 mm larger than the 2364.

A better hi-res image of the front - in the case - could help.

PS: the 2505-10 - the tenth series - I have seen are from the early 50s, most of the 30Rg production is before that.
Tony C. Tony C.
Sorry, but it appears to be a redial, and in any case not a dial associated with 30T2Rg chronometres. And as @mac_omega has confirmed that the case reference never housed chronometers, it means that it is a misrepresented "frankenwatch", assembled from parts that would not have left the factory in that combination. If you have the option to return it to the seller, you would be well-advised to do so.
 
mac_omega
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Hi John,
absolutely impossible this is an original watch.
This dial most likely comes from a gold chronometre ref. OT 14352 from around 1952 the case of which had been melted down.
The orphaned movement has been re-cased in a case of the well known ref. 2505 which is a non-chronometre model. The gold crown should have allerted you, it comes from the original gold watch and does not match ref. 2505 !
Furthermore the dial has been reprinted. The correct inscription for the dial would be: "OMEGA, CHRONOMETRE, OFFICIALLY CERTIFIED" in this order written in 3 lines. And it should have "cross hairs".
You say you have a lot of watch books but obviously not the right one... 😀
If you had my book about Omega 30 mm Chronometres it would have been easy to spot what you have or respectively what you don´t have in front of you...
Edited:
 
J
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Many thanks...I haven't bought the watch...or even seen it in person, but I suspected it was a franken watch but my knoweledge in this particular area (40s chronometers ) is limited. I appreciate everyone's input...I will give it a miss.
What I'm actually after is a 'round' steel case,
( with the flush crown) 1966 ish Constellation...pie pan or not, i don't care, as long as the condition is good...available in Italy though...not paying import duty because some morons thought Brexit would be a good idea...sorry, politics...
 
Dan S
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J John Richardson
I know what I'm looking at when buying Omegas...but this one has intrigued me...the dial looks OK...from the font style and it fits the larger case..
The dial is repainted, and not particularly well, IMO. As you keep looking, you will more easily notice the obvious signs of redials and be able to quickly eliminate watches like this from consideration.
 
mac_omega
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J John Richardson
available in Italy

You live in Italy?
This would perfectly make sense because ref 14352 was one of the models specifically sold in Italy... Bingo!
In the photo below you can see the 4 "Italian references".

Italia_21_breit.jpg


The second watch from the right is the model from which the dial derives.
 
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