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Of A 386 Casebacks And Forgeries

LouS
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B bobj
To resurrect an old, but very interesting and well put together thread, I assume on basis on the discussion here this watch is (to use a word from the classic car world) a "recreation" on the basis that it has a serial of 956DXXX, a flat polished case back and a service dial?

Correct, except the serial number tell is XXXD460. The fact that the last three digits never change is what makes these pop as forgeries made as a group. The forger appears to have mistaken the last 3 digits as a movement reference, which is in fact the case in a later Zenith model numbering scheme, and so kept it the same across all the "recreations" as you put it. In reality, it is a case number and darned unlikely to be the same across a range of similar watches.
 
Mlafra
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Correct, that one also has not only a service dial but also all service hands
 
B
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LouS LouS
Correct, except the serial number tell is XXXD460. The fact that the last three digits never change is what makes these pop as forgeries made as a group. The forger appears to have mistaken the last 3 digits as a movement reference, which is in fact the case in a later Zenith model numbering scheme, and so kept it the same across all the "recreations" as you put it. In reality, it is a case number and darned unlikely to be the same across a range of similar watches.
 
B
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Thanks, you know your stuff! How do you identify service hands?

The seller won't tell me the full number but has revealed that the next digit is a 4 so my money would be on the last 2 being 6 and zero...
 
Mlafra
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Service sub-dials hands are pointy, like the ones in the watch you posted, whereas original ones have a flat tip (and they normally are thinner in MKI and early MKII and a little bit thicker in later MKII and MKIII). Also, you can tall all the hands in the watch you posted are way too white and new for being 40y old. The service hour and minute hand instead are pretty much identical in shape to the original ones for MKII and MKIII (MKI hour and minute hands are slightly different) but filled with luminova instead of tritium and you can tell by the fact that luminova is pretty much white, very uniform and almost shiny/glossy, tritium would have aged to some shade of yellow or light brown or brown or greyish color and the surface would not be so uniform
 
S
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Hello,
I would like to have your opinion about this watch that I'm on my way to buy, I've read all your messages, I understand perfectly the story of the service dial, but not really well the one about the caseback, if you can help me to understand if this watch is original or a fake one ? Or just a service dial and a service caseback ?

Thanks for your help 😀)
Edited:
 
E-diddy
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I'm confused. The watch looks re-listed now. Are you buying it or are you the seller?
 
S
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Hello 😀)

No I saw it today in a shop, but I'm confused about these numbers on the caseback. So I made some googling and found this thread.
Ok dial has been replaced, hands too, movement I'm unable to know and caseback I just don't understand. I'm looking for this watch for a long time, I don't have problem with service dial but I don't want a kind of Frankenstein...
Edited:
 
Stewart H
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It is not a frankenwatch, it is a forgery. The case back did not leave any factory in this format.

The only value in this watch is in the bracelet and a parts donor movement.
 
S
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Insane... it's a profesionnal who sell it for 9 900€... It's listed on Chrono24. I was really on the way to buy it...
So it's a fake one with original bracelet and some parts of the movements which are okay. I don't understand the interest they have to do this kind of watch half fake/half ok. By the way... I will continue to look for an other one. Thanks for your help, really, so helpful.

Edit : Perhaps even dial is not original ? Not possible to consider it as service dial ? Because Insaw many of them on google.
Edited:
 
LouS
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S sadkun
it's a profesionnal who sell it for 9 900€... It's listed on Chrono24. I was really on the way to buy it...

I don't understand the interest they have to do this kind of watch half fake/half ok.

It's easy to understand. The interest is in the 9900 Euros.
 
papaebetu
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Full service watch, dial, hands, flange, crown serial number reprint....
Open eyes guys😉

GIGI
 
andomegas
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papaebetu papaebetu
Full service watch, dial, hands, flange, crown serial number reprint....
Open eyes guys😉

GIGI
Open eyes a little more...same SN pattern as other fakes.
😁
 
LouS
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Gotta hand it to whoever made these for consistency.
 
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