New Speedmaster 3861 Side Profile - Production Variances Noted

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

gnuyork
Again the 1863 case and the 3861 case are different profiles (by design)., I'm no sure the reason for comparing the two, other than to show the differences in the styles of different cases. It would be more interesting to see the variance between the 3861n vs w... as you call them.

Either way, it's not a big deal to me, but apparently it is to some here, and I'm not criticizing that.

Well, as stated, when I got home with the new 3861 it’s already dark. Need to get similar lighting conditions otherwise there will be comments that says the light is different between day and night 😀 so just to share the comparison with 1863 temporarily.

Here they are as requested, two original pictures of 3861N and 3861W (for anyone who has better tools to analyze the pictures), and my processed side by side. I don’t think I need to tell which one is which.

Gruesome · Mar 28, 2021

It looks like a difference of a factor 2, with the narrow width about 0.5mm, and the wide 1.0mm. On my Speedmaster co-axial (very different model) the corresponding measurement is about 1.3mm.
0.5mm difference on a 1mm detail is quite significant.

gnuyork · Mar 28, 2021

Did you notice a difference in the case finishing otherwise? I still prefer the N variant, but that's subjective. In the grand scheme of life I'd take either and hardly notice the difference.

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

gnuyork
Get over yourself. There is no allegiance. If there is any variance it is subtle and I doubt it has anything to do with case finishing quality. I'd be happy to be proven otherwise.

Can OP confirm his new 3861W feels any less or more sharp than the one he returned?

It's conceivable that Omega got word of the the negative press on the non issue "razor" sharp cases and decided to change it, but I really doubt that.

It feels to me, and I'm 90% confident about the difference is there, that the 3861N is sharper than the 3861W. But this is a more subtle difference than the bevel size IMO. Yes the "N" is sharper, but not cutting skins. How it's linked to quality is subjective.

gnuyork · Mar 28, 2021

robinhook
It feels to me, and I'm 90% confident about the difference is there, that the 3861N is sharper than the 3861W. But this is a more subtle difference than the bevel size IMO. Yes the "N" is sharper, but not cutting skins. How it's linked to quality is subjective.

Thanks for your perspective.

joshinbrooklyn · Mar 28, 2021

gnuyork
Did you notice a difference in the case finishing otherwise? I still prefer the N variant, but that's subjective. In the grand scheme of life I'd take either and hardly notice the difference.

A variance of 0.5mm on a 1mm detail. 3861N may be more roughly finished than the 3861W.
You'd take either and not notice the difference. You say you aren't a "collector"... would you call yourself an enthusiast? I'm guessing a lot of watch enthusiasts would care about this difference, would want to get to the bottom of it (especially with such an anticipated new release), and demand better from their brand. 👍

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

J joshinbrooklyn
So how will Omega address this issue for those of us whose AD’s may not accept returns or exchanges? I’m not feeling great about my purchase now knowing there are better versions of the same watch already out there.

Truth be told, I did not expect that they will let me exchange the watch coming to the AD. I was prepared to keep it, and not necessarily feeling bad about it because of the following:
1. If it is prevalent that the "N" version exist, the market should accept this as manufacturing variance rather than the case being polished/refinished. And TBH manufacturing variance is very common in Speedy's history;
2. As I showed in the picture, the overall case size is 42, the 2 versions' sides have the same overall thickness, as they extend the same length out of the bezel edges. That is to say, before the beveling, the 2 cases should start as the same rectangular metal block. From there, the N case actually retains more metal than the W case, as the bevel is shallower. It's probably hard for the N case to be polished in the future because it needs to work on 2 surfaces. But if collector's negative reception associated with polishing is that there's less metal remaining, then this does not apply to the N case, it actually has more metal.

gnuyork · Mar 28, 2021

J joshinbrooklyn
A variance of 0.5mm on a 1mm detail. 3861N may be more roughly finished than the 3861W.
You'd take either and not notice the difference. You say you aren't a "collector"... would you call yourself an enthusiast? I'm guessing a lot of watch enthusiasts would care about this difference, would want to get to the bottom of it (especially with such an anticipated new release), and demand better from their brand. 👍

Sure, I guess I am an enthusiast that does not give one rip about the difference.

joshinbrooklyn · Mar 28, 2021

gnuyork
Sure, I guess I am an enthusiast that does not give one rip about the difference.

Why are you on this thread? To troll?

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

Come on guys, no need to fight. There are certainly different perspective and opinions, we don't need to persuade one another. But I think we can respect the other side of the opinion, right?

I drew the following to illustrate my point. Red line represent the N case cut of the bevel, blue line represent the W cut. If the W case goes thru a polish, the bevel will become narrower and look like the N case, but the case side thickness will decrease.

Om3ga321 · Mar 28, 2021

Variances in a 1k watch are to be expected but in a 10k watch ?
Omega's push to a higher level and price point must be accompanied with unquestionable quality.
The case variance is small but it is there.

gnuyork · Mar 28, 2021

J joshinbrooklyn
Why are you on this thread? To troll?

No

Duckie · Mar 28, 2021

BlackTalon
I am curious -- what were the understandable reasons? They are photos of factory-supplied watches. What was their issue with showing them?

So you're curious hey?

Duckie · Mar 28, 2021

J joshinbrooklyn
So how will Omega address this issue for those of us whose AD’s may not accept returns or exchanges? I’m not feeling great about my purchase now knowing there are better versions of the same watch already out there.

Now there's a prime example🙁

Duckie · Mar 28, 2021

J joshinbrooklyn
Not sure what you mean by that. This is a watch forum where we discuss topics like potential issues that might afflict them?

The only affliction that can be problematic here is the Obsessive Compulsion to over analyse these things that poison one's mind and by extention poison the mind of others who may already be pre-disposed.

How does this analysis help anything in the real world and how can it account for variances after a full service where the Mid-case is polished.

It's madness. IMHO.
Just find the capacity to wear the watch and use it to tell the time just like it's intended to.
Simply enjoy it for what it's worth😉

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

D Duckie
The only affliction that can be problematic here is the Obsessive Compulsion to over analyse these things that poison one's mind and by extention poison the mind of others who may already be pre-disposed.

How does this analysis help anything in the real world and how can it account for variances after a full service where the Mid-case is polished.

It's madness. IMHO.
Just find the capacity to wear the watch and use it to tell the time just like it's intended to.
Simply enjoy it for what it's worth😉

Yea, in your humble opinion.

If madness has a price, then it is not just madness, but something you should learn and pay attention to. You think DON and DNN really make a difference in telling time? But how much more is a DON bezel worth?

Similarly, the perception of whether a case has been polished or not has a price. I don't know how long have you been collecting and selling, but an unpolished watch could easily sell for 10-20% higher vs a polished one. So the perception of whether the case looks thin or not, call it madness, will have an impact on your wallet.

BlackTalon · Mar 28, 2021

D Duckie
So you're curious hey?

Yes, I was. And I still don't get it. They are an AD, not the case manufacturer. So their stance seems a bit overdramatic to me. If they are truly concerned I would think they would alert their Omega supplier/ rep ASAP.

Evitzee · Mar 28, 2021

robinhook
Update: I took it to the AD this afternoon, compared to the other 3861 models they have, suffice to say there are variance in production. A few findings:
1. The case variance is not by hesalite vs sapphire models, but rather random;
2. The AD showed me that they all arrived rather recently together from Omega, so there’s no refinishing subsequent to leaving the factory;
3. As to the “sharp edge” comments, my observations is that the one with narrower polished bevel is sharper than the one with wider bevels. But it’s only the edge of the case, not the bracelet that is sharp. And I went back to the original video of The Timeless Watch Channel, the 3861 he tried on appear to be the version with a very narrow bevel too.

I have to say that the AD is extremely nice and professional. They acknowledge there are differences, and offered me with an exchange. I now have a hesalite one with similar bevel width to the Sapphire example of @Calibre561’s. So a big thanks to the AD, I’m a very happy customer now.

I know people have different views and tolerances. Maybe I’m a bit OCD to let this minor detail bother me... but I think this observation should be documented and shared with the community as a reference point.

So what happens to your original watch? Put back in the display case and sold as new? That hardly seems fair to the next person that buys it. Or put in a 'pre-owned' case at discounted price? Not likely. This community obsesses on getting a factory fresh example, not one that has had it's plastic taken off, wound and played with in the store, much less one taken home for a few days, or a week or two. But it's ok if we want to return a watch we own because of some OCD hinkiness since it isn't exactly like every other Speedmaster. Got it.

Gruesome · Mar 28, 2021

So if they sell you a new car with the roof a few inches lower than it should be, and you discover that and return it, then it's your fault if the dealer sells it to another person, instead of returning it to the manufacturer?

robinhook · Mar 28, 2021

Evitzee
So what happens to your original watch? Put back in the display case and sold as new? That hardly seems fair to the next person that buys it. Or put in a 'pre-owned' case at discounted price? Not likely. This community obsesses on getting a factory fresh example, not one that has had it's plastic taken off, wound and played with in the store, much less one taken home for a few days, or a week or two. But it's ok if we want to return a watch we own because of some OCD hinkiness since it isn't exactly like every other Speedmaster. Got it.

I found your logic to be pretty ridiculous, and even more so for your tone. You seem to indicate that I should not have the right to return it, and doing so is harming others.

Here're my responses:
1. Right to return is a well established set of rules that is applicable for all merchandise. You logic can be applied to any goods we purchase at any store. Do you question yourself before you return things to Costco/Amazon?
2. At my particular AD, the return policy is that within 5 days, if no surface damage and subject to inspection/evaluation, the watch can be returned or exchanged. This policy is written on the invoice, and I'm following the rules.
3. I have not worn the watch. Case back stick is not removed. The watch has been sitting in the pouch offered by the AD with a divider separating the case back and bracelet. And I return it the 2nd day after purchase. The AD offered the exchange exactly because of that: there's no sign of usage.
4. I am curious about how they handle returned watches. As a matter of fact, that is my suspicion that I may have got one of that. How do you know the one I purchased at first is not one that's returned by others? And if so do I have the right to return it?
5. I trust that AD and Omega has set rules and processes to handle returned goods and what standard they need to follow to sell it as new or used. This is not a concern that the customer should burden.
6. People's perspectives and tolerance are different. I may not like this particular aspect, but others may be totally ok with it or even prefer it.
7. Ultimately, it is Omega's manufacturing process that created this variance, that some customer may not like it. Why in your twisted logic it's ok for Omega to sell things that appear to have a loose standard, but not ok for customer to notice it?
8. All watches in display at any AD are subject to inspection/handling by potential customers. My AD allowed me to put it on the wrist, and removed the plastic wrap so that I can feel how sharp the case is. If you are saying you are only happy to buy a watch that has never been touched by anybody else, man, you are in worse OCD than I am.

New Speedmaster 3861 Side Profile - Production Variances Noted

robinhook

Gruesome

gnuyork

robinhook

gnuyork

joshinbrooklyn

robinhook

gnuyork

joshinbrooklyn

robinhook

Om3ga321

gnuyork

Duckie

Duckie

Duckie

robinhook

BlackTalon

Evitzee

Gruesome

robinhook

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