Longines Tre Tacche 35mm

hejsam · Apr 28, 2023

@DirtyDozen12 what do you think of this dial?

Flat, railroad minute track, 12.68n movement and same diameter checks all the boxes I have been looking for at least.
Could this have been original to the 35mm tre tacche?

DirtyDozen12 · Apr 28, 2023

The signature and outer track look correct. The hour numbers look to have been crudely redone in some way. Quite odd.

Thanks for sharing.

EDIT: P.S. I am not certain whether this type of dial would have come in a tre tacche case. It is a good question. One thing I notice is that most tre tacches with full Arabic hour markers have upright rather than radial numbers.

hejsam · Apr 28, 2023

DirtyDozen12
The signature and outer track look correct. The hour numbers look to have been crudely redone in some way. Quite odd.

Thanks for sharing.

EDIT: P.S. I am not certain whether this type of dial would have come in a tre tacche case. It is a good question. One thing I notice is that most tre tacches with full Arabic hour markers have upright rather than radial numbers.

Why do you think the hour numbers have been redone and not just vanish / crumbled over the years / moisture?

I see, I will try and search if I can find any other examples 😀

hejsam · Apr 28, 2023

Also here are some better lighting pictures, looks quite nice to be honest

DirtyDozen12 · Apr 28, 2023

hejsam
Why do you think the hour numbers have been redone and not just vanish / crumbled over the years / moisture?

To me, the lines that remain do not closely match the shapes of numerals on original Stern dials. This is particularly evident when comparing the 2, 3, 6, and 8. I am not certain, though. I wonder if you notice anything when viewing those numbers with a loupe?

Source (second watch): https://www.watchnet.co.jp/en/item/view/1892
Source (third watch): https://www.watchnet.co.jp/en/item/view/1906

Syrte · Apr 28, 2023

Hi everyone, I think it’s a very nice looking dial.
@DirtyDozen12 I have a Longines dial with numbers which have been affected by a similar decay— I too at one point thought one of them might have been tampered with and I had decided to live with it.

I was quite surprised relatively recently, when I looked at it closely with a loupe to find that in fact there was no trace of tampering at all and it seemed to be a completely natural decay. i don’t have any close ups of it, and even if I did I’m not sure their quality would be appropriate to render the visual observation. But I would now swear that it is entirely original.

the one I’m referring to is the flat bezel one- I’m also including the small tonneau.

DirtyDozen12 · Apr 28, 2023

Hello @Syrte,

Thank you for adding to this discussion.

I am curious to know what caused you to think that your dial had been tampered with? One of my thoughts, with regard to @hejsam's dial, is that the present numbers fall outside of the expected bounds of typical original numbers. I have attempted to illustrate what I mean below.

DirtyDozen12 · Apr 28, 2023

Here is another Stern radial dial. Apparently ref. 4358, cal. 12.68N, from 1943.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_GFfnBHiPF/

hejsam · May 30, 2023

Stumbled across this 35mm tre tacche on chronovantage2 instagram "Longines tre tacche 35mm, central second, ref 4142, 12.68n, sold in 1941"

What do you think of the dial @DirtyDozen12? Font looks a bit off to me and if I remember correctly you stated all 35mm tre tacche would have railroad minute track originally.

The poster does not state if the dial is untouched or original to the case, and also I don't know if he actually is selling this watch or not but his info states "Rare vintage timepieces buying/selling".

DirtyDozen12 · May 30, 2023

My first thought is that I have seen very similar dials in sei tacches (see an example below). My second thought is that I have seen a similar but different dial in another ref. 4142 from 1941 (see here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-tre-tacche-35mm.137899/page-2#post-1879626). I cannot recall if I stated that all 35 mm tre tacche dials would have a railroad minute track originally, but I am prepared to retract that statement. A couple of other things: the second hand appears to extend beyond the outer track, and the deterioration around the outside of the dial is intriguing.

Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1757407109...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

hejsam · May 30, 2023

DirtyDozen12
I would say that a rail track minute scale on a 35 mm tre tacche (with sub-seconds) is expected, and that other minute scale designs are highly atypical.

@DirtyDozen12 think it was this I was thinking of posted earlier here in the thread, and an combination of me never seeing a correct 35mm tre tacche without railroad tack either so maybe it was just myself making up that statement.

All the examples you posted above are similar but still not a 35mm tre tacche with centrum second and not a railroad minute track.

Edit: in conclusion I think you are referring to just sub-second 35mm tre tacches and not centrum second tre tacches which I was referring to

DirtyDozen12 · May 31, 2023

hejsam
@DirtyDozen12 think it was this I was thinking of posted earlier here in the thread, and an combination of me never seeing a correct 35mm tre tacche without railroad tack either so maybe it was just myself making up that statement.
All the examples you posted above are similar but still not a 35mm tre tacche with centrum second and not a railroad minute track.
Edit: in conclusion I think you are referring to just sub-second 35mm tre tacches and not centrum second tre tacches which I was referring to

Thanks for locating my prior statement. At present, I do not think that I could make a strong statement about the minute tracks of center-seconds 35 mm tre tacche dials. These watches are uncommon, and I have not seen enough of them to identify any clear patterns with regard to minute tracks.

hejsam · May 31, 2023

DirtyDozen12
Thanks for locating my prior statement. At present, I do not think that I could make a strong statement about the minute tracks of center-seconds 35 mm tre tacche dials. These watches are uncommon, and I have not seen enough of them to identify any clear patterns with regard to minute tracks.

Thanks, so possible they are original center-seconds 35 mm tre tacche dials without railroad minute track?
And the dial I posted above might be correct?

Another concern you mentioned favouring a swapped dial is the deterioration around the outside of the dial, looks like it could have been fitted to a smaller case before.

DirtyDozen12 · May 31, 2023

hejsam
Thanks, so possible they are original center-seconds 35 mm tre tacche dials without railroad minute track?

I think it is possible, yes. There are certainly many original center-seconds 30 mm tre tacche dials with partially open minute tracks. However, this is not necessarily relevant.

I am somewhat skeptical that the ref. 4142 dial that you posted is correct. Both the deterioration around the outside and the fact that very similar dials can be found in sei tacches make me wary.

707mm2 · Jun 9, 2023

hejsam
Flat, railroad minute track, 12.68n movement and same diameter checks all the boxes I have been looking for at least.
Could this have been original to the 35mm tre tacche?

Hello,

Here's how "natural" decay should look on a Stern radial dial, from my own collection. In my experience, those dials are only found in snap back cases, not screwed back. What did the 12.68N that came with yours look like ? The ones made for gold cases like mine where different than those for steel case (they had a breguet overcoil with screwed steel polished cap for the stud, like on the 27.0).

Small note about redials, I know Longines actually made some themselves, read this old conversation I had on WUS.

hejsam · Jul 18, 2023

@DirtyDozen12 sorry for spamming you but I am just keen to learn 😀

What do you think about this dial?

Syrte · Jul 18, 2023

hejsam
@DirtyDozen12 sorry for spamming you but I am just keen to learn 😀

What do you think about this dial?

@DirtyDozen12 spent much more time than I did scrutinizing the various combos, but IMHO this dial looks very close to something that is correct for the reference, even though a trained eye can discern that it appears a tad too small.

It looks really good though, so I would say Enjoy it and wear it in good health.

DirtyDozen12 · Jul 18, 2023

Firstly, no need to apologize! I appreciate this extended discussion on 35 mm tre tacche dials. I continue to be impressed by all of the dials you find. And thanks for sharing such good photos.

Secondly, I associate this type of dial (particularly the sub-dial and signature) with sei tacches. As I was looking for similar dials, I realized that there are a few subtly different sub-dial designs, and this one is not very common. One of its distinguishing traits is the rounded 4, though there is at least one other variant that also has this. The two comparable examples I found seem to be early sei tacches (both ref. 5175?).

Described as 33 mm, caliber 12.68Z.
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bud3Ik7A7Ht/ and https://watchcharts.com/listing/1227722-longines-sei-tacche-stepped-case-radium-dial-vintage-watch

Described as 33.5 mm, reference 5175.
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CtO7PS3L6gw/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/CTPyV_Hj4ea/

hejsam · Jul 19, 2023

DirtyDozen12
Firstly, no need to apologize! I appreciate this extended discussion on 35 mm tre tacche dials. I continue to be impressed by all of the dials you find. And thanks for sharing such good photos.

Secondly, I associate this type of dial (particularly the sub-dial and signature) with sei tacches. As I was looking for similar dials, I realized that there are a few subtly different sub-dial designs, and this one is not very common. One of its distinguishing traits is the rounded 4, though there is at least one other variant that also has this. The two comparable examples I found seem to be early sei tacches (both ref. 5175?).

Described as 33 mm, caliber 12.68Z.
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bud3Ik7A7Ht/ and https://watchcharts.com/listing/1227722-longines-sei-tacche-stepped-case-radium-dial-vintage-watch

Described as 33.5 mm, reference 5175.
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CtO7PS3L6gw/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/CTPyV_Hj4ea/

Thank you, I feel that the discussion on 35mm tre tacche dials should be sorted out since many questions still are unanswered and many "internet truths" and "original examples" are in fact not.

I have bought quite a few Longines dials/watches these last few years since I started this thread, for curiosity to learn more about the correct dials and somewhat hoping to find a correct one to my case. Probably not a good idea financial but since this kind of discussion cant be found anywhere else I feel someone have to sacrifice for science 😁

I am also impressed by all the examples you manage to find, do you keep some kind of database or do you just search the internet for certain references/dial configurations when needed?

One other thing I noticed with my dial as well as the two you posted is the somewhat faded bottom of the 's' in Longines, that I have not seen on other logos. Just coincidence patina or a batch with that printing?

DirtyDozen12 · Jul 19, 2023

In terms of finding photos of examples, it depends on the thing I am looking for. In many cases, I will search the internet as certain websites serve as useful archives. For other things (e.g. unusual examples), I do have various folders with photos that I have saved.

Good observation, regarding the "s" in Longines! I would guess that it was a batch with flawed printing.

P.S. Have you measured the diameter of this dial? Also, did it come with a movement?

Longines Tre Tacche 35mm

hejsam

DirtyDozen12

hejsam

hejsam

DirtyDozen12

Syrte

DirtyDozen12

DirtyDozen12

hejsam

DirtyDozen12

hejsam

DirtyDozen12

hejsam

DirtyDozen12

707mm2

hejsam

Syrte

DirtyDozen12

hejsam

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