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septentrio
·It’s 35mm. The crystal isn’t helping, but having seen it in person I’m very much of the opinion that this dial is original.
Nice watch, but original dial? No.
Longines Tre Tacche 35mm
Nice watch, but original dial? No.
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Syrte
··MWR Tech Support DeptFound two more of this kind of dial from a dealer on ig so thought I should share.
How many of these dials should be considered swapped before start wondering if they actually could be original @DirtyDozen12?
I’m afraid by now there has been so much tampering that it will be impossible to trust without positive confirmation from the Longines archive.
I have personally seen proof of 5 instances of tre tacches being sold with swaped dials, and I that was only the tip of the iceberg I’m sure.
Those were already a hot commodiry back then and I’m sure there were a gazillion tampering opportunities in the past few years.
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hejsam
·I’m afraid by now there has been so much tampering that it will be impossible to trust without positive confirmation from the Longines archive.
I have personally seen proof of 5 instances of tre tacches being sold with swaped dials, and I that was only the tip of the iceberg I’m sure.
Those were already a hot commodiry back then and I’m sure there were a gazillion tampering opportunities in the past few years.
Wonder how many true untouched 35mm tre tacches its actually out there, cant be a majority..
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hejsam
·I will keep posting here as long as I stumble across "new" examples, it might be useful for someone 😀
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maanu
·
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maanu
·
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DirtyDozen12
··Thanks, mystery donor!Regarding the assessment of 35 mm tre tacches, rule number one should be skepticism. The reason for this is: (1) the value of these watches with original dials is high, and (2) dials from non-tre tacche references (with cal. 12.68Z) can easily be swapped in. To be highly confident that a 35 mm tre tacche example has a correct dial (not swapped), the overall condition of the watch would need to suggest that the watch has not been touched in many years. Of course, these examples make up a small fraction of what is available on the market today. Another point is that Longines' archive sometimes mentions information about the dials of specific examples. I believe that this information is useful to conclude that a dial is incorrect, but not as useful to conclude that a dial is correct. It would be easy for someone in possession of a 35 mm tre tacche to contact Longines, find out that the original dial should be silver with radium hour markers, and then source an 'appropriate' dial and handset. As a side note, I do not think that this practice is necessarily wrong, but it must be disclosed to potential buyers. Finally, as with assessing any watch, lots of time spent carefully studying many variations is needed. One must learn which dials (12.68Z) were prevalent in the mid-1930s and then uncommon by the late 1930s. One must also learn which dials were prevalent in the mid-to-late 1940s but uncommon in the early 1940s. Unfortunately, we are long passed the days of being able to look at a random sample of 35 mm tre tacches in order to determine if a specific example is correct. Far too many examples have been altered.
Regarding the two examples posted above with nice Accurate Form(?) straps, I am suspicious of both dials. The silver dial on the right has a design (e.g. the sub-dial) that is typical of the mid-1930s, however I imagine that the watch is from the early 1940s (please correct me if I am wrong). The black dial on the left has a design (e.g. sub-dial) that is more typical of sei tacches from the mid-to-late 1940s. I will add that the design of the minute scale is atypical, with lines radiating outward.
Regarding the two examples posted above with nice Accurate Form(?) straps, I am suspicious of both dials. The silver dial on the right has a design (e.g. the sub-dial) that is typical of the mid-1930s, however I imagine that the watch is from the early 1940s (please correct me if I am wrong). The black dial on the left has a design (e.g. sub-dial) that is more typical of sei tacches from the mid-to-late 1940s. I will add that the design of the minute scale is atypical, with lines radiating outward.
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hejsam
·Were you aware that LEA has information on many watches with black dials? Your watch will likely come up as not originally produced with a black dial. If you have no intent to sell the watch, ignore this.
But I will of course provide the information that the case did not come with this dial from the factory if I was to sell this, just as everyone with a 35mm tre tacche with swapped dial should. Which by now seems pretty solved that the majority of them actually are.
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hejsam
·Couple more for evaluation and couple more coming next week. Happy journey!
The minute scale is indeed uncommon but didn't we with some certainty conclude that all 35 tre tacches probably had rail track minute scales?
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DirtyDozen12
··Thanks, mystery donor!The minute scale is indeed uncommon but didn't we with some certainty conclude that all 35 tre tacches probably had rail track minute scales?
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BlueHands
·I am suspicious of both dials
so I believe sei tacche watches have curved dials.
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Fons
·I will keep posting here as long as I stumble across "new" examples, it might be useful for someone 😀
As @DirtyDozen12 stated (and I´m with him on this one based on experience), I also believe all 35mm TT at least from the late 30s and early 40s all have flat dials. But like all-things-vintage, without a written Longines dial confirmation we can only study examples and make assumptions.
Next time I disassemble mine will post some images here 😀
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Fons
·I've just happened to remember vintagelongines from IG (a well-regarded and experienced Longines collector) recently posted a new-old-stock tree-tacche from 1941 in unused condition and he claims Longines confirmed that dial left the factory with that case, this particular and extremely beautiful 😀 TT has no rail-track sub-seconds. IMHO this ends all speculations, here we have a TT with Longines dial confirmation and no rail-track subdial, I will attach the link to the post.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Chu8hUJqN4k/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Chu8hUJqN4k/
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DirtyDozen12
··Thanks, mystery donor!While prices for 35 mm tre tacches have increased significantly over the past several years, they have not been obscure watches for quite some time. I recall reading an article on Hodinkee in 2014 that mentioned an "Oversized Tre-Tacche": https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/t...4-by-every-single-member-of-the-hodinkee-team I think it is reasonable to suppose that dials were being swapped back then.
Regarding the example from 1937 that was posted by @hejsam above, I would be very surprised if the dial was original to the watch. The signature is very atypical for a Longines dial from 1937. @Fons I wonder if you have asked Longines if there is any information about the original dial in their archive? I have found that black dials are often mentioned.
Just to clarify, I do not think that anyone in this thread has said anything about a "rail-track subdial". As far as I know, @hejsam and I have been discussing rail track minute scales.
Regarding the example from 1937 that was posted by @hejsam above, I would be very surprised if the dial was original to the watch. The signature is very atypical for a Longines dial from 1937. @Fons I wonder if you have asked Longines if there is any information about the original dial in their archive? I have found that black dials are often mentioned.
IMHO this ends all speculations, here we have a TT with Longines dial confirmation and no rail-track subdial
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maanu
·From Longines: Given the number of Longines I have. I may just move there.
You will understand that we cannot certify the authenticity of your watch (the dial) without having it in our hands.
If you would like a firm authentication, you may send us your timepiece for examination by our watchmakers in Saint-Imier. In that case, please send it through our official distributor in your country, whose contact details can be found under this link. Envoyez-nous votre montre (longines.com)
Please include a covering letter with your parcel stating your name and address as well as a copy of this e-mail, to facilitate forwarding to Switzerland, and make sure that your shipment is duly secured. Provided the watch proves to be authentic, you will then receive a Certificate of Authenticity which will be charged CHF 120.--. In addition, the shipping costs and possible customs and import duties are at your charge.
We trust that we have responded satisfactorily to your request and remain at your entire disposal for any additional information.
You will understand that we cannot certify the authenticity of your watch (the dial) without having it in our hands.
If you would like a firm authentication, you may send us your timepiece for examination by our watchmakers in Saint-Imier. In that case, please send it through our official distributor in your country, whose contact details can be found under this link. Envoyez-nous votre montre (longines.com)
Please include a covering letter with your parcel stating your name and address as well as a copy of this e-mail, to facilitate forwarding to Switzerland, and make sure that your shipment is duly secured. Provided the watch proves to be authentic, you will then receive a Certificate of Authenticity which will be charged CHF 120.--. In addition, the shipping costs and possible customs and import duties are at your charge.
We trust that we have responded satisfactorily to your request and remain at your entire disposal for any additional information.
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Fons
·Yeap, I’ve asked Longines for it and got the same answer as @maanu
But I guess based on the info already detailed here and in other Forums we will never know for sure if some of these dials were swapped or not. Being an almost 90 yo watch so many thing could have happened. Some of the examples here are clearly mismatched but let me have doubts on some others.
Regarding the minute track, I guess I understood wrong
But I guess based on the info already detailed here and in other Forums we will never know for sure if some of these dials were swapped or not. Being an almost 90 yo watch so many thing could have happened. Some of the examples here are clearly mismatched but let me have doubts on some others.
Regarding the minute track, I guess I understood wrong
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hejsam
·Glad to see my TT here, this fantastic tread made me wonder and I had to disarm mine, and I was glad to see the dial is indeed flat. I´ve had this 35mm TT for almost a decade ¨long before all the hype for these ones¨, I'm pretty confident the dial is authentic to the watch, and the fact that there are so many (possibly original) TT with and without rail track sub-seconds is at least enough argument to stay away assumed facts.
As @DirtyDozen12 stated (and I´m with him on this one based on experience), I also believe all 35mm TT at least from the late 30s and early 40s all have flat dials. But like all-things-vintage, without a written Longines dial confirmation we can only study examples and make assumptions.
Next time I disassemble mine will post some images here 😀
Other than the images shared earlier in this thread I have not been able to find any more good un-case pictures of the 35 TT dials to study them closer.
As stated above I have my doubts about your dial being factory original to your case but I might also be a bit biased by the information I have learned in this thread. Either way its a very pretty watch and to me it would not bother me that much if the dial was in fact swapped at some point in its 90 year old life. Especially since so many 35mm TT seem to have walked that way!
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Fons
·I would like to see some pictures of your dial next time you disassemble yours.
Other than the images shared earlier in this thread I have not been able to find any more good un-case pictures of the 35 TT dials to study them closer.
As stated above I have my doubts about your dial being factory original to your case but I might also be a bit biased by the information I have learned in this thread. Either way its a very pretty watch and to me it would not bother me that much if the dial was in fact swapped at some point in its 90 year old life. Especially since so many 35mm TT seem to have walked that way!
Next time I manage to open it I will post some macro shots 😀
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DirtyDozen12
··Thanks, mystery donor!From Longines: Given the number of Longines I have. I may just move there.
You will understand that we cannot certify the authenticity of your watch (the dial) without having it in our hands.
If you would like a firm authentication, you may send us your timepiece for examination by our watchmakers in Saint-Imier. In that case, please send it through our official distributor in your country, whose contact details can be found under this link. Envoyez-nous votre montre (longines.com)
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