Last Resort..Redial, Who is the Best?

cristos71 · Jun 27, 2017

watchknut
Crest I think...it is a looker for sure.

So here is the question...

It is fugly as is, so bad it is comical. Would it make sense to try for a better, albeit probably not perfect redial, to improve for the short term?

Obviously getting the real deal is the ultimate goal.

I personally wouldn't throw any money at it, a redial would always be a stop-gap measure. I'd stick it in the box marked "long term projects" and try and somehow hunt down an original dial and hands....

watchknut · Jun 27, 2017

cristos71
I personally wouldn't throw any money at it, a redial would always be a stop-gap measure. I'd stick it in the box marked "long term projects" and try and somehow hunt down an original dial and hands....

Man I love this place...people enable you to spend money, yet watch over your pocketbook like it were their own.

I am thinking some cheap blued leaf hands will make it more palatable...and the waiting game.

Funny thing is that I love the wearing the watch on its current state.

Archer · Jun 27, 2017

Deafboy
That is so interesting. I found this video on the process for watch dials.

It seems to me the technique is good for production but I have trouble see it been done for a one-off redial because of the work involved to prepare the artwork/plates for each color of the print. Is this the technique used by redialers? It doesn't seem economically feasible.

Yes, this is the technique used for redialing watches. It does cost more for a multi-coloured dial, or one that requires more than one plate. Generally speaking, getting plates made is the most expensive part of this, and the company I use for dial printing charged $90 per plate the last time I had plates made. If you need more than one plate, the job can get expensive certainly.

But the reality is that most shops do not make a custom plate for each job. Sometimes you will find shops that offer 2 levels of service. One is the "we will use the closest thing we already have on hand for your dial" job, and the other is a full on custom job where they make everything specifically for your dial. Most of the bad redials you see are from the "use whatever is close" sort of job or place. But even getting custom plates made is no guarantee of a good job.

It depends on the skill set of the people doing the artwork, how good the equipment is for making plates, and how well the dial is located for each print process. A good shop will send you the artwork ahead of the printing job to get your approval, both for new dials and refinished dials...

Cheers, Al

Wing Zero · Jun 27, 2017

Deafboy
That is so interesting. I found this video on the process for watch dials.

More like boob printing.

This makes me think of all the NOS vintage Rolex dials selling for $2-5k....

BenjaminT · Jun 27, 2017

Deafboy
That is so interesting. I found this video on the process for watch dials.

It seems to me the technique is good for production but I have trouble see it been done for a one-off redial because of the work involved to prepare the artwork/plates for each color of the print. Is this the technique used by redialers? It doesn't seem economically feasible.

Do also have a look on this acrticle about Glashütte Originals dial manufacturer - german language but the photos speak for themselves. The auto translation seems quite reasonable, as well.

CHenry · Apr 22, 2018

Maganator
I'm amazed that the technology doesn't exist to get a perfect result every time from a redial - if it's just a case of reprinting the thing.

Adding lume obviously causes an extra layer of complexity but if you're just printing you'd think it can be done easily - get the perfect image on a computer etc then just print the thing.

Or am I being naive

Theoretically, you could have something like that, but it would mean a lot of QC time and re-dos. They aren't starting with new parts and they are working to reproduce vintage effects done with available modern materials. The cost would be high (or at least higher.) Send a vintage watch to the manufacturer and you will see: long service time, meticulous work, huge bill.

CHenry · Apr 22, 2018

watchknut
When your last resort is a redial, who is the best?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I can't say who is "best" since quality seems to vary by the brand and even the piece. If you haven't already gone ahead, you might try International Dial Co. on Ohio and send them a photo and ask if they can refinish the dial. I had a similar situation with a badly re-done dial on a vintage Constellation I got at an appropriately low price on eBay. I figured I would likely end up with an improvement over the poorly done re-dial I already had, and I was right. It isn't perfect, but the flaws are small, something I see only with the loupe (tiny amount of peau d'orange in the lacquer finish and maybe a little thicker line in the crosshair than on an original, which was painted over anyway in the previous re-dial.) But it brought a still original pie pan dial with nice white gold arrowhead markers closer to the original finish than it had. They took maybe three weeks. I doubt you will end up with anything worse than what you have, then you can consider whether the "restorers" who keep your piece for a year are worth the wait and money.

Vanallard · Apr 23, 2018

I recently sent a terribly refinished Seamaster De Ville dial to Dial Craft in Ontario, Canada. It’s getting the ‘Don Draper' finish (black dial with crosshairs) 😎 I’ll be giving the watch to my sister so I’m not overly concerned about small details being a bit off or what the refinishing will do to the value of the watch. I’ll post pics once the dial is finished and the watch reassembled.

ulackfocus · Apr 23, 2018

Archer
JLC still have original dies for many of their dials, at least that's what they told me when I went through the factory a number of years ago.

That is correct and confirmed by a couple JLC employees I've dealt with. I have 2 restorations that have awesome redials from their Le Sentier factory.

Here's one: https://omegaforums.net/threads/are-all-redials-created-equal.8802/#post-103487

Al is also correct that certain companies do better jobs with certain brands. International Dial in Ohio was THE place to have your vintage Hamilton or Illinois redialed.

Archer · Apr 24, 2018

Vanallard
I recently sent a terribly refinished Seamaster De Ville dial to Dial Craft in Ontario, Canada. It’s getting the ‘Don Draper finish (black dial with crosshairs) 😎 I’ll be giving the watch to my sister so I’m not overly concerned about small details being a bit off or what the refinishing will do to the value of the watch. I’ll post pics once the dial is finished and the watch reassembled.

Will be interested in the result. Used to get dials redone by them before Dietmer retired...now I use a different place.

felsby · Apr 24, 2018

Archer
Will be interested in the result. Used to get dials redone by them before Dietmer retired...now I use a different place.

Who do you use @Archer ?

sat968 · Apr 24, 2018

felsby
Who do you use @Archer ?

You really expect him to reveal his secrets?

felsby · Apr 24, 2018

sat968
You really expect him to reveal his secrets?

Not necessarily. I could always send the watch to @Archer! As long as the job is done well, I have no need to know who did it 😀

sat968 · Apr 24, 2018

I ended up sending my Connie railtrack to Omega Addict for a redial since it's quite difficult for a new guy to get on the schedule for @Archer. I haven't gotten it back yet, but the pictures he sent me for other Connies he had redialed looked very close to an original dial. You could tell the difference if you closely compared to a good reference photo, but on the wrist, I don't think you'd see any differences. Time will tell...

My watchmaker expenses are starting to add up... 😲

felsby · Apr 24, 2018

sat968
I ended up sending my Connie railtrack to Omega Addict for a redial since it's quite difficult for a new guy to get on the schedule for @Archer. I haven't gotten it back yet, but the pictures he sent me for other Connies he had redialed looked very close to an original dial. You could tell the difference if you closely compared to a good reference photo, but on the wrist, I don't think you'd see any differences. Time will tell...

My watchmaker expenses are starting to add up... 😲

Please do post the result when you get your watch back! Did you take any photos of the watch before you sent it for redialing?

sat968 · Apr 24, 2018

My original thread is here. I do plan on posting pictures of the new dial when the watch arrives in a few weeks.

watchos · Apr 24, 2018

If redials are so risky, wouldn't it make sense to have make a brand new dial made based on the original design, textured and techniques?

This way, the original regardless of what state it's in, won't be destroyed and you always have the original. Or is that not desired?

Assuming the dial is created as close to the original design as humanly possible, on the same material, technically speaking, why would you want to destroy the original? Are there non-destructive dial restorations?

When a watch is sent to Omega for service, what would they do with that dial? Replace it with a brand new one?

Thanks in advance.

sat968 · Apr 24, 2018

watchos
When a watch is sent to Omega for service, what would they do with that dial? Replace it with a brand new one?

Well, the rub with vintage watches is that there is no longer any stock of original dials for many (most) models. The option then becomes either live with the original dial, look for a better copy, or seek a redial. While I have no direct experience, other users have reported that Omega would send a dial out for refinishing when a NOS dial is unavailable. It seems that sometimes Omega may not be as discerning on the redial as us over zealous collectors.

watchos · Apr 24, 2018

sat968
Well, the rub with vintage watches is that there is no longer any stock of original dials for many (most) models. The option then becomes either live with the original dial, look for a better copy, or seek a redial. While I have no direct experience, other users have reported that Omega would send a dial out for refinishing when a NOS dial is unavailable. It seems that sometimes Omega may not be as discerning on the redial as us over zealous collectors.

So in that case, having a dial made from scratch is probably safer? If the re-dialer doesn't so a good job, you can try again with another one. Obviously money is an issue so doing this is not practical at all. Theoretically speaking, it's the only non-destructive way?

sat968 · Apr 24, 2018

watchos
So in that case, having a dial made from scratch is probably safer? If the re-dialer doesn't so a good job, you can try again with another one. Obviously money is an issue so doing this is not practical at all. Theoretically speaking, it's the only non-destructive way?

Correct, and that's what I am doing on my railtrack redial; I'm having pictures sent to me for approval before the watch is reassembled. Not sure what I'd do if it's not up to my expectations, but I'll figure that out if the time comes...

Last Resort..Redial, Who is the Best?

cristos71

watchknut

Archer

Wing Zero

BenjaminT

CHenry

CHenry

Vanallard

ulackfocus

Archer

felsby

sat968

felsby

sat968

felsby

sat968

watchos

sat968

watchos

sat968

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