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watchknut
·Keep it original. Always!!
My redial project was done on top of an already poorly done one.
Otherwise: KIO. KEEP IT ORIGINAL.
Last Resort..Redial, Who is the Best?
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Oku
·I'm amazed that the technology doesn't exist to get a perfect result every time from a redial - if it's just a case of reprinting the thing.
Adding lume obviously causes an extra layer of complexity but if you're just printing you'd think it can be done easily - get the perfect image on a computer etc then just print the thing.
Or am I being naive
When the dials were produced, several attempts were made such that the printing was perfect. Then the production could start and the first attempts were not used. But nowadays, the printer has only one attempt. If he sees a mistake he can remove the print immediately. If not, it is on the dial and takes more time to be removed. And we all know, time is money.
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Northernman
··Lemaniac
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watchknut
·Ouch.
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Northernman
··LemaniacEasy decision huh???
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ch30-yes-its-a-redial-i-did-it.49245/
There are times when a redial is the lesser of evils by substantial margins!
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watchknut
·As bad as my 30CH used to be.😲
https://omegaforums.net/threads/ch30-yes-its-a-redial-i-did-it.49245/
There are times when a redial is the lesser of evils by substantial margins!
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mac_omega
·My experience with re-dialers is very bad - my conclusion: I do not buy watches which are in need of restoration (dial) any more...
I have also tried Causemann. When senior Causemann was in business you could get very nice results.
He has retired long ago. Now his son is running the company and I am not sure if he likes his business, it seems that he does what was expected from him as a son - to continue the family business. By the results I have obtained from him it seems that his heart is not with what he does for his living.
I used to send him high resolution pics to show him how the final result should look - he did not bother, it was so so, similar but not the same.
And he has a very sensitive character: When I got back a silvered dial with tiny red paint splashes (obviously from a different paint job done near by) and I complained he let me wait for another year (!) to reprint it once more - this was his revenge for my complaint...
And it was not a single cause... Obviously he does not want to work for nasty collectors like me (and most of the collectors here on OF would tolerate even less precise work).
I think his main stock of customers are those who just need a new looking dial and who do not care if it is precisely redone or not - it must look better than the patinated/damaged old one...
It is much easier to satisfy these 95% cusomers and make money with a single attempt of re-print while to create a dial which satisfies a discerning collector like we are would take 3-4 attempts.
And I assume this is the point for most of the re-dialers.
To be honest, I would neither recommend Bethge nor Causemann and I avoid to buy watches which need some work done on the dial for the future...
Only exception would be an ultra rare watch with a completely molested/unacceptable (re-)dial, but thats very unlikely.
Always go with the original if you can. 👍
I have also tried Causemann. When senior Causemann was in business you could get very nice results.
He has retired long ago. Now his son is running the company and I am not sure if he likes his business, it seems that he does what was expected from him as a son - to continue the family business. By the results I have obtained from him it seems that his heart is not with what he does for his living.
I used to send him high resolution pics to show him how the final result should look - he did not bother, it was so so, similar but not the same.
And he has a very sensitive character: When I got back a silvered dial with tiny red paint splashes (obviously from a different paint job done near by) and I complained he let me wait for another year (!) to reprint it once more - this was his revenge for my complaint...
And it was not a single cause... Obviously he does not want to work for nasty collectors like me (and most of the collectors here on OF would tolerate even less precise work).
I think his main stock of customers are those who just need a new looking dial and who do not care if it is precisely redone or not - it must look better than the patinated/damaged old one...
It is much easier to satisfy these 95% cusomers and make money with a single attempt of re-print while to create a dial which satisfies a discerning collector like we are would take 3-4 attempts.
And I assume this is the point for most of the re-dialers.
To be honest, I would neither recommend Bethge nor Causemann and I avoid to buy watches which need some work done on the dial for the future...
Only exception would be an ultra rare watch with a completely molested/unacceptable (re-)dial, but thats very unlikely.
Always go with the original if you can. 👍
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!David Bill have a good reputation but are hard to get hold of.
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Northernman
··LemaniacDavid Bill have a good reputation but are hard to get hold of.
Eventually managed to find an original dial instead, my faith in dial restorers have since been low.
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Gstp
·My experience with re-dialers is very bad - my conclusion: I do not buy watches which are in need of restoration (dial) any more...
I have also tried Causemann. When senior Causemann was in business you could get very nice results.
He has retired long ago. Now his son is running the company and I am not sure if he likes his business, it seems that he does what was expected from him as a son - to continue the family business. By the results I have obtained from him it seems that his heart is not with what he does for his living.
I used to send him high resolution pics to show him how the final result should look - he did not bother, it was so so, similar but not the same.
And he has a very sensitive character: When I got back a silvered dial with tiny red paint splashes (obviously from a different paint job done near by) and I complained he let me wait for another year (!) to reprint it once more - this was his revenge for my complaint...
And it was not a single cause... Obviously he does not want to work for nasty collectors like me (and most of the collectors here on OF would tolerate even less precise work).
I think his main stock of customers are those who just need a new looking dial and who do not care if it is precisely redone or not - it must look better than the patinated/damaged old one...
It is much easier to satisfy these 95% cusomers and make money with a single attempt of re-print while to create a dial which satisfies a discerning collector like we are would take 3-4 attempts.
And I assume this is the point for most of the re-dialers.
To be honest, I would neither recommend Bethge nor Causemann and I avoid to buy watches which need some work done on the dial for the future...
Only exception would be an ultra rare watch with a completely molested/unacceptable (re-)dial, but thats very unlikely.
Always go with the original if you can. 👍
This was done by "old" Causeman
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Oku
·My experience with re-dialers is very bad - my conclusion: I do not buy watches which are in need of restoration (dial) any more...
I have also tried Causemann. When senior Causemann was in business you could get very nice results.
He has retired long ago. Now his son is running the company and I am not sure if he likes his business, it seems that he does what was expected from him as a son - to continue the family business. By the results I have obtained from him it seems that his heart is not with what he does for his living.
I used to send him high resolution pics to show him how the final result should look - he did not bother, it was so so, similar but not the same.
And he has a very sensitive character: When I got back a silvered dial with tiny red paint splashes (obviously from a different paint job done near by) and I complained he let me wait for another year (!) to reprint it once more - this was his revenge for my complaint...
And it was not a single cause... Obviously he does not want to work for nasty collectors like me (and most of the collectors here on OF would tolerate even less precise work).
I think his main stock of customers are those who just need a new looking dial and who do not care if it is precisely redone or not - it must look better than the patinated/damaged old one...
It is much easier to satisfy these 95% cusomers and make money with a single attempt of re-print while to create a dial which satisfies a discerning collector like we are would take 3-4 attempts.
And I assume this is the point for most of the re-dialers.
To be honest, I would neither recommend Bethge nor Causemann and I avoid to buy watches which need some work done on the dial for the future...
Only exception would be an ultra rare watch with a completely molested/unacceptable (re-)dial, but thats very unlikely.
Always go with the original if you can. 👍
What I learned so far is that the font of modern redials is usually somewhat thicker and not so fine like the original one and like it used to be on older redials. 30 or more years ago, they used a different technique (as far as I know) that brought better results but was much more complicated. But I am not an expert concerning this.
Concerning your experiences with Causemann: That is very interesting. As you could see above, my experiences are quite different (except for having to wait a long time) but I don't want to advocate him. So don't get me wrong. As we can see in @Gstp 's post, the subdial of Causemann's work is not centered. Could you show us pics of the result that you don't like? I am interested in the differences between your hires pics and the result.
As you said it is difficult to find someone who is (constantly) doing a good redial job.
For example: I have seen good jobs from Bethge, but also quite bad ones.
@manbitesdog reported a nice redial: https://omegaforums.net/threads/to-repaint-or-not-to-repaint-that-is-the-question.55902/#post-702756
But if you look at the website of that guy who did the job there are good examples and some, well, not so good ones: http://www.watchdialrestoration.co.uk
http://www.watchdialrestoration.co.uk
Therefore, it would be very nice to see pics of your experience with Causemann.
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Deafboy
··His Holiness Puer SurdusHow is a redial actually done? Is it, as one mentioned, done on computer, then printed and transferred?
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watchknut
·Hearing all of this makes me think it may be best to take a gamble on a stateside redialer.
Normally I never buy any watch that needs dial work, but this watch was an exception to the rule.
Normally I never buy any watch that needs dial work, but this watch was an exception to the rule.
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerHow is a redial actually done? Is it, as one mentioned, done on computer, then printed and transferred?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pad_printing
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STANDY
··schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collectorJLC do a good job ( seen some nice work from them ) but probably not on a Longines 👎
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerJLC do a good job ( seen some nice work from them ) but probably not on a Longines 👎
JLC still have original dies for many of their dials, at least that's what they told me when I went through the factory a number of years ago. Some brands do care a lot about their heritage, beyond using it to sell new watches...
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Deafboy
··His Holiness Puer Surdus
That is so interesting. I found this video on the process for watch dials.
It seems to me the technique is good for production but I have trouble see it been done for a one-off redial because of the work involved to prepare the artwork/plates for each color of the print. Is this the technique used by redialers? It doesn't seem economically feasible.
It seems to me the technique is good for production but I have trouble see it been done for a one-off redial because of the work involved to prepare the artwork/plates for each color of the print. Is this the technique used by redialers? It doesn't seem economically feasible.
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watchknut
·Looks like the lume was done with toothpaste! 😁
So here is the question...
It is fugly as is, so bad it is comical. Would it make sense to try for a better, albeit probably not perfect redial, to improve for the short term?
Obviously getting the real deal is the ultimate goal.
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