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Is this a redial constellation piepan ?

Maskelyne
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V Vegabond
I didn't expect my post would make another discussion and i've also learned a lot. My watch buying wise, I decide to cancel this order due to the missing screw and my suspicion of repaint of dial.. I'm not a collector but i would definitely avoid if it is redial because i personally think originality(especially dial) is one of the most important thing of vintage.. Anyway, Thanks for helping guys!

I think that was a wise descision; 👍 I am convinced that it´s a redial. The crosshair is too thick. Serifs are missing, "swiss made" is to small. A genuine dial shall deliver a crisp, sharp impression.
 
padders
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I still think it is perfectly fine. The dial dirt and patina on the lume suggests to me it has been that way for decades, redials done back in period weren't usually all that accurate and are often easy to detect. There are question marks on that crosshairs and the lack of defined step (often seen on this model) its true but much of it is down to dirt and poor resolution IMO. Its all academic as after you add in the $300+ needed to make it healthy it becomes less of a bargain anyway. Not one to chase.
Edited:
 
watchyouwant
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padders padders
@Dan S As you asked I did take a couple of pics of my less steppy PP, the one on the LHS earlier which is model 14381. While I am 100% there is a kink, I realise that it isn't proven by these pics so I don't think you will necessarily agree. The problem is to really show it you need a very low angle, something that is prevented by the crystal in a cased dial. Anyhoo you asked and I deliver. I would be genuinely curious to see the opposite, a 12 sided middle section with a non kinked rim ie a faux pp done by brushing, if you can find me a verifiable one:

IMG_7316.jpeg IMG_7318.jpeg


I know you dismissed the pic of a 2 tone that gbesq posted of the Geneve earlier as irrelevant , but I have one too which has one of the best faux pp dials IMO so thought I’d post that too, mostly because I like it lol.

0512CC38-6A76-4839-9989-9FD0CCAA82EC.jpeg

That step is good to see between 8 and 9 o'clock.
 
Maskelyne
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padders padders
I still think it is perfectly fine. The dirt and patina on the lume suggests to me it has been that way for decades, redials done back in period weren't usually all that accurate and are often easy to detect. There are question marks on that crosshairs and the lack of defined step (often seen on this model) its true but much of it is down to dirt and poor resolution IMO. Its all academic as after you add in the $300+ needed to make it healthy it becomes less of a bargain anyway. Not one to chase.

I disagree. Serifs are all missing and the fonts are to fat.

Enhanced picture...

Omega.jpg
 
padders
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You can't enhance pixels that aren't there. I do see traces of serifs but neither of us can be 100% when using a low res shot like that. I think on the balance of probabilities it is fine, I fully respect that you do not. Without a close up neither of us will fully convince the other.
 
Peemacgee
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A 20,31XX serial pushes this well into Ts era 😒
 
padders
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Peemacgee Peemacgee
A 20,31XX serial pushes this well into Ts era 😒
By my reckoning that dates to circa Dec 1963 so it might just have snuck into the unmarked Tritium lume era, just before the T arrived, but it is another concern I grant you. The Ts I believe started in 1964 if the internet is to be believed, and I have seen a Connie extract dated Jan 1964 on 20.36m
Edited:
 
padders
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Zapatta Zapatta
Hey @Dan S,
This is my 2943 with "pie pan" without step. Hope it helps😀
No step but a clear kink. It’s most obvious at the date window.
 
Dan S
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padders padders
No step but a clear kink. It’s most obvious at the date window.

I guess we all see what we want to see. 😁
 
Verdi
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Zapatta Zapatta
Hey
This is my 2943 with "pie pan" without step. Hope it helps😀

Im with you.
Step or no step, all kink shape dials are pie pan in my book. Its the shape of the dial that makes it a pie pan not necessarily the “step”.
The step only makes it more obvious.[/user]
 
Dan S
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TBH, these Constellations have never appealed to me, and I ended up flipping the only one I ever owned fairly quickly. But now I feel that I will need to buy one of these painted 168.004 references so that I can pull the dial and image it in profile under high magnification with diffuse back-lighting, just so we can finally determine if there is actually a tiny almost-imperceptible kink. Certainly, none of the images posted to date are convincing to me. I have a set-up in my lab that we use to measure the precise shapes of small pendant and sessile liquid droplets.
Edited:
 
Zapatta
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My conclusion is that there are 2 types of PP dials. One with kink like mine but with painted edges, and with little step like shown few pages before. In my book both pie pans. 🍿
 
Shabbaz
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Dan S Dan S
TBH, these Constellations have never appealed to me, and I ended up flipping the only one I ever owned fairly quickly. But now I feel that I will need to buy one of these painted 168.004 references so that I can pull the dial and image it in profile under high magnification with diffuse back-lighting, just so we can finally determine if there is actually a tiny almost-imperceptible kink. I have a set-up in my lab that we use to measure the precise shapes of small pendant and sessile liquid droplets.
I'm willing to put in eur 100 so we can buy a very bad 168004 for a couple of hundred on the internet.
 
Dan S
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Would this one work, or is it repainted?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Om...228267?hash=item2179228d2b:g:akQAAOSwcd9fdWD8

s-l1600.jpg
 
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Dan S
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Actually, this view from the back is almost convincing me of the kink.

s-l1600.jpg
 
padders
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Zapatta Zapatta
My conclusion is that there are 2 types of PP dials. One with kink like mine but with painted edges, and with little step like shown few pages before. In my book both pie pans. 🍿
You are right but that isn't the argument. Dan suggests that there are dials out there that mimic the 12 sided PP shape by paint only and are in fact dome dials with no kink, just a Trompe-l'œil brush effect. I disagree but its hard to produce convincing evidence either way without removing the dial and looking at it completely side on.

Dan S Dan S
Would this one work, or is it repainted?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Om...228267?hash=item2179228d2b:g:akQAAOSwcd9fdWD8

s-l1600.jpg
What exactly is happening here Dan? If this is a flat dial with a brush PP effect, how come the line continues over the bit where the paint is missing...

s-l1600 (1).jpeg
 
s-l1600 (1).jpeg
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Zapatta
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padders padders
If this is a flat dial with a brush PP effect, how come the line continues over the bit where the paint is missing...
+1
 
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