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I just bought this... help
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SC1
·fυck all this noise, I wanna know what the OP is up to -- sweating, plotting, planning, buying a Lambo on credit, looking at property in the south of France & Italy, wishing he hadn't/happy he did ~ post this thread with photos, etc.
I WANT THE TRUTH.
I WANT THE TRUTH.
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marcn
·It's a predicament, isn't it? With unresolved legal status and provenance:
Can't really be sold for the price it ought to fetch. Anyone with the resources to buy it will need to know it's not a toxic mess. Could it stay in a blackhole collector's nest at significant discount? Of course, but provenance matters, and somewhere down the line all these things come down to cash.
Its status has to be resolved. I'm hoping for the best outcome for the OP, but worst case it's an incredible story.
Can't really be sold for the price it ought to fetch. Anyone with the resources to buy it will need to know it's not a toxic mess. Could it stay in a blackhole collector's nest at significant discount? Of course, but provenance matters, and somewhere down the line all these things come down to cash.
Its status has to be resolved. I'm hoping for the best outcome for the OP, but worst case it's an incredible story.
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SC1
·
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Arancio601
·Conscience questions aside, anything valuable with provenance and questionable ownership still has cashed up keen buyers. Pretty sure there are plenty of Oligarch level rich buggers out there sitting in their studies looking at a stolen Monet or similar. Not a market I would like to entertain as I would imagine there are plenty of dangers associated…
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pdxleaf
·
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Danwales
·I don't know what the legal ramifications are but I do have a little bit of knowledge of somebody attempting to sell something at auction where ownership is questionable.
An old housemate was given an original draft of handwritten lyrics by the singer Amy Winehouse. They were given to him by Amy's boyfriend at the time after she threw them at him during a row. Years later my pal tried to sell them and they were put up by Sothebys but the Amy Winehouse estate got involved and prevented the sale and tried to claim ownership. I don't know what the outcome was as it rolled on for ages and I lost touch with my pal.
An old housemate was given an original draft of handwritten lyrics by the singer Amy Winehouse. They were given to him by Amy's boyfriend at the time after she threw them at him during a row. Years later my pal tried to sell them and they were put up by Sothebys but the Amy Winehouse estate got involved and prevented the sale and tried to claim ownership. I don't know what the outcome was as it rolled on for ages and I lost touch with my pal.
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TimeODanaos
·...I lost touch with my pal.
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Danwales
·
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Caliber561
·Anyone else notice that the case and caseback still had the red wax seal Omega used to put on their watches when they left the factory? Not necessarily further evidence of authenticity, because it can be easily faked, but still rather interesting. 😗
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Spacefruit
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderWe can speculate all we like, but there is a clear history of what happened here to this watch:
According to conversations I have been told about, and indeed some with myself and Jim Ragan during the Christies sale in 2015, no Alaskas were officially “surplused”
indeed for some time I am looking at the veritable flood of NASA associated watches coming through Phillips and wondering at the source, and just how many more they are, as memories fade and records get lost.
There are plenty of radial dials circulating, that have been installed in watches. They have a huge value to some, though I personally do not see it.
Let’s put it another way. Who would gamble $10,000 on this watch being officially surplused and legitimised, (And indeed verified by the museum) so that an auction house could sell it?
Side by side with the re possessed watch:
According to conversations I have been told about, and indeed some with myself and Jim Ragan during the Christies sale in 2015, no Alaskas were officially “surplused”
indeed for some time I am looking at the veritable flood of NASA associated watches coming through Phillips and wondering at the source, and just how many more they are, as memories fade and records get lost.
There are plenty of radial dials circulating, that have been installed in watches. They have a huge value to some, though I personally do not see it.
Let’s put it another way. Who would gamble $10,000 on this watch being officially surplused and legitimised, (And indeed verified by the museum) so that an auction house could sell it?
Side by side with the re possessed watch:
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Dan S
·Who would gamble $10,000 on this watch being officially surplused and legitimised, (And indeed verified by the museum) so that an auction house could sell it?
Exactly my thinking, but I bet there is someone willing to take that bet at better than 10:1 odds. 😁
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JwRosenthal
·Me commenting on this thread is far less about the watches themselves than wanting to clarify how government property is handled for the conversation. As someone who is deeply involved in the process, I was getting a little tired of the hyperbole surrounding the mystique here.
It’s fun to talk about black SUV’s and helicopters hovering- but it’s all very melodramatic and not how it works. If two “agents” showed up at Bonhams and took the watch away, then there was something much more sinister afoot than mis-appropriated property.
There is no mystery about what happened to these watches (except apparently to us)- the property managers at nasa know. It would be interesting to actually get the far more boring story from them rather than all this cloak and dagger.
It’s fun to talk about black SUV’s and helicopters hovering- but it’s all very melodramatic and not how it works. If two “agents” showed up at Bonhams and took the watch away, then there was something much more sinister afoot than mis-appropriated property.
There is no mystery about what happened to these watches (except apparently to us)- the property managers at nasa know. It would be interesting to actually get the far more boring story from them rather than all this cloak and dagger.
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Dan S
·It’s fun to talk about black SUV’s and helicopters hovering- but it’s all very melodramatic and not how it works. If two “agents” showed up at Bonhams and took the watch away, then there was something much more sinister afoot than mis-appropriated property.
There is no mystery about what happened to these watches (except apparently to us)- the property managers at nasa know. It would be interesting to actually get the far more boring story from them rather than all this cloak and dagger.
Cloak-and-dagger or mundane fear-of-consquences, the murky ownership of the watch represents a financial risk for seller, buyer, and auction house, so I think that William's point is valid. And apparently it's not just hypothetical, a watch was pulled from a major auction previously, regardless of the details. Without more assurance that the watch can be legitimately sold (or even legally possessed), there is a toxic aspect to owning the watch IMO.
Since you have first-hand expertise in this area, maybe you can describe in detail how someone would go about getting information about the disposition of the 56 NASA Speedmasters that have been discussed.
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pdxleaf
·Me commenting on this thread is far less about the watches themselves than wanting to clarify how government property is handled for the conversation. As someone who is deeply involved in the process, I was getting a little tired of the hyperbole surrounding the mystique here.
It’s fun to talk about black SUV’s and helicopters hovering- but it’s all very melodramatic and not how it works. If two “agents” showed up at Bonhams and took the watch away, then there was something much more sinister afoot than mis-appropriated property.
There is no mystery about what happened to these watches (except apparently to us)- the property managers at nasa know. It would be interesting to actually get the far more boring story from them rather than all this cloak and dagger.
As someone who worked at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, as well as served in the Army at Ft. Meade, Maryland, I also think there might be an excess of Hollywood. The government is mostly made up of rational people who are trying to do the right thing and follow the rules. People make mistakes. There isn't enough money for updated computer systems or to hire more people to meet all the demands. There's the occasional person who ignores the rules, which often makes the paper and harms the reputations of the honest, hardworking rest. No one wants to be on page one of a newspaper. And certainly not because of a watch. Maybe a billion dollar satellite system.
The other crazy thing about this are space auctions. Anyone who follows space auctions sees some crazy stuff being sold. Rockets, computer systems, all kinds of hardware off of space shuttles and Saturn Vs. It's absolutely nuts. This watch pales in comparison.
I have no idea what would happen if this were auctioned and would not predict one way or the other.. i suspect someone would have to make a really big stink to get a response from a government official.
If it were mine, I'd probably dig myself into a hole. I like many love provenance. Part of the charm of watches is that physical connection to the people who wore it before you. Curiosity would kill me. I'd have to know where it came from, even if I just wanted to wear it and keep it all to myself.
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ghce
·I am guessing that the OP has emigrated to Argentina by now and is hanging out with the WW2 survivors with all the doom and gloom.
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DoctorEvil
·Me commenting on this thread is far less about the watches themselves than wanting to clarify how government property is handled for the conversation. As someone who is deeply involved in the process, I was getting a little tired of the hyperbole surrounding the mystique here.
It’s fun to talk about black SUV’s and helicopters hovering- but it’s all very melodramatic and not how it works. If two “agents” showed up at Bonhams and took the watch away, then there was something much more sinister afoot than mis-appropriated property.
There is no mystery about what happened to these watches (except apparently to us)- the property managers at nasa know. It would be interesting to actually get the far more boring story from them rather than all this cloak and dagger.
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watchyouwant
·I am guessing that the OP has emigrated to Argentina by now and is hanging out with the WW2 survivors with all the doom and gloom.
WW2 survivors? NAZI instead of NASA? Oh Dear....
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Spacefruit
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderToggle
<<Thread drift>>
<<Thread drift>>
