I just bought this... help

pdxleaf · Mar 3, 2023

We don't know how often these were put into service on the Shuttle. Even accounting for training, there weren't all that many flights tgat would require the use of 56 watches. It's reasonable ti imagine a watch sitting on a shelf awaiting its turn. As for grandpa, he certainly could have worn it but just as well could have packed it away as a memento (speaking from personal packrat behavior.)

So in this case, the seemingly unsed condition doesn't raise any alarm for me, even though that should be considered.

Aroxx · Mar 3, 2023

Also, if grandpa knew what the deal was it makes sense that he hid it away and didn’t tell anybody about it. Only to be discovered after his death. Dude was playing the long game.

SC1 · Mar 3, 2023

Aroxx
Also, if grandpa knew what the deal was it makes sense that he hid it away and didn’t tell anybody about it. Only to be discovered after his death. Dude was playing the long game.

Hollywood screenplay perhaps but otherwise -- giving way too much credit to the average human brain.

Could be the above average human brain in this case... but that's one seriously fυcking long long-game.

SC1 · Mar 3, 2023

Evitzee
I really have nothing to add here other than the observation that the condition of the watch appears perfect with no markings or any wear visible. No marks on the lugs showing strap changes, no wear on the back if it was worn on a NATO strap, good condition gasket, no marks on inside of case, dial looks excellent, movement, too. It justs appears too perfect for a 45 year old watch.

This I sort of love... it does give rise to the "I am about to circulate," knowingly or otherwise, "one seriously good fake into the ocean -- what better place to not only have it scrutinized *but* also start the buzz than a knowledgeable, specialized, hotbed" (aka OF) possibility.

rcs914 · Mar 3, 2023

Just speculating here, but in OP's shoes I'm pretty sure I'd either just keep it, or try to move it via back channels to someone who wants it. Won't reach the same value as it would at auction, but then won't be repossessed either. Asking the question "is this considered stolen or is it discharged surplus?" of NASA seems to be asking for trouble, at least from their perspective. I'm not weighing in on what is technically "the right thing to do".

SC1 · Mar 3, 2023

rcs914
Just speculating here, but in OP's shoes I'm pretty sure I'd either just keep it, or try to move it via back channels to someone who wants it. Won't reach the same value as it would at auction, but then won't be repossessed either. Asking the question "is this considered stolen or is it discharged surplus?" of NASA seems to be asking for trouble, at least from their perspective. I'm not weighing in on what is technically "the right thing to do".

Truth.

Me in the same position -- it's going on my wrist and enjoying it while not plastering it on social media -or- I am backdooring it out to a broker to have them find it a home through their network.

Part of the issue is -- when we own RCS (Really Cool Shit) humans typically have a hard time staying tacet about their RCS.

Olhenry56 · Mar 3, 2023

Aroxx
Also, if grandpa knew what the deal was it makes sense that he hid it away and didn’t tell anybody about it. Only to be discovered after his death. Dude was playing the long game.

If he had known it's value, I would have expected him to mention something about it to his family. Or maybe he expected, too optimistically, his grandson to research the watch.

I'd also expect that if the grandpa knew the government might have a claim to it, that he wouldn't have put a legal record of possessing it in his will.

That said, I have about zero experience with family valuables, so what do I know?

My onanistic (thanks @Evitzee for the new word!)
guess is that grandpa held it as a cherished gift that he thought was only moderately valuable.

Spacefruit · Mar 4, 2023

As far as ownership is concerned, if this is No42 of the series of 58 watches purchased by NASA, then if discovered then the US government will acquire legal authority to retrieve it.

It has been done before, and I have no doubt if the us government believes this to be a NASA watch they will recover it.

STANDY · Mar 4, 2023

I bet it’s a few bored guys in NASA archives have a laugh at us 😁😁

Duracuir1 · Mar 4, 2023

STANDY
I bet it’s a few bored guys in NASA archives have a laugh at us 😁😁

Or…Hey, he asked for it…

watchyouwant · Mar 4, 2023

I know that the Omega Museum reads OF. My guess/ assumption is, that they already have notified NASA.

bags1971 · Mar 4, 2023

Spacefruit
As far as ownership is concerned, if this is No42 of the series of 58 watches purchased by NASA, then if discovered then the US government will acquire legal authority to retrieve it.

It has been done before, and I have no doubt if the us government believes this to be a NASA watch they will recover it.

Sorry if this sounds stupid but what if its in a different country will the US government still go after it?

gatorcpa · Mar 4, 2023

bags1971
Sorry if this sounds stupid but what if its in a different country will the US government still go after it?

They can try if they want, but it would depend on the country and that country's relationship with the US and/or its own citizens.

The matter becomes, as they say, "an international incident".
gatorcpa

JwRosenthal · Mar 4, 2023

Spacefruit
As far as ownership is concerned, if this is No42 of the series of 58 watches purchased by NASA, then if discovered then the US government will acquire legal authority to retrieve it.

It has been done before, and I have no doubt if the us government believes this to be a NASA watch they will recover it.

As I said before, if the property has been surplused, they would have no legal claim to reposes it. If the property were listed as stolen/lost, there would be an incident report with a board of inquiry- this would be documented-then they would have a right to try and reclaim it The agency can’t suddenly find value in them now if they disposed of them 40 years ago.

If I were in this situation, I would have questions about the chain of custody, lifecycle and decommissioning of these watches. US Government property rules are very strait forward, they don’t bend from one organization to another. There is no difference between a hammer, watch, drill press, camera, etc- accountable property is property and they all follow the same life cycle.

Once property is decommissioned, it can’t be gifted away or taken by anyone in the agency- it either needs to be destroyed (smash it with a hammer, burn barrel, bury it in concrete) or surplussed (traded to a vendor or sent for GSA auction). I cannot opine on the astronauts getting to keep their issued watches or military vets getting to keep theirs- it’s a violation of accountable property law- but obviously exceptions are made (possibly a blind eye) when it comes to consumables and personal issued items (socks, underwear, water bottles- etc).

If the design of the watches were considered classified or sensitive (national security), then there would be a process of disposal or declassification prior to disposal. If said classified materials were taken after decommissioning but prior to disposal (but were not de-classified) like a guy who gets a box of watches in the waste disposal area to smash with a hammer but takes them home instead, then that dude is in deep shit and the property needs to go back for proper disposal- since it has already been decommissioned and thus of no value to the government.

If the first civilian owner took the watch after it was sent for disposal or was gifted the watch by anyone in the agency- then NASA could claim violations of procedures for the disposal- it is still theirs since the disposal wasn’t fulfilled but it’s off inventory.

If I were the new owner of one of these, I would absolutely not just hand it over. It would be locked in a secured location by my lawyer pending an investigation and disclosure from NASA on the chain of custody. Only after they can prove that these watches are still listed as active property or were stolen (police or FBI report would have to have been filed) would I entertain returning it.

pdxleaf · Mar 4, 2023

JwRosenthal
As I said before, if the property has been surplused, they would have no legal claim to reposes it. If the property were listed as stolen/lost, there would be an incident report with a board of inquiry- this would be documented-then they would have a right to try and reclaim it The agency can’t suddenly find value in them now if they disposed of them 40 years ago.

If I were in this situation, I would have questions about the chain of custody, lifecycle and decommissioning of these watches. US Government property rules are very strait forward, they don’t bend from one organization to another. There is no difference between a hammer, watch, drill press, camera, etc- accountable property is property and they all follow the same life cycle.

Once property is decommissioned, it can’t be gifted away or taken by anyone in the agency- it either needs to be destroyed (smash it with a hammer, burn barrel, bury it in concrete) or surplussed (traded to a vendor or sent for GSA auction). I cannot opine on the astronauts getting to keep their issued watches or military vets getting to keep theirs- it’s a violation of accountable property law- but obviously exceptions are made (possibly a blind eye) when it comes to consumables and personal issued items (socks, underwear, water bottles- etc).

If the design of the watches were considered classified or sensitive (national security), then there would be a process of disposal or declassification prior to disposal. If said classified materials were taken after decommissioning but prior to disposal (but were not de-classified) like a guy who gets a box of watches in the waste disposal area to smash with a hammer but takes them home instead, then that dude is in deep shit and the property needs to go back for proper disposal- since it has already been decommissioned and thus of no value to the government.

If the first civilian owner took the watch after it was sent for disposal or was gifted the watch by anyone in the agency- then NASA could claim violations of procedures for the disposal- it is still theirs since the disposal wasn’t fulfilled but it’s off inventory.

If I were the new owner of one of these, I would absolutely not just hand it over. It would be locked in a secured location by my lawyer pending an investigation and disclosure from NASA on the chain of custody. Only after they can prove that these watches are still listed as active property or were stolen (police or FBI report would have to have been filed) would I entertain returning it.

If I were the owner and if an official told me the watch was not properly surplused, i would ask them the disposition of the other watches in this lot. Where are they if they are still in inventory? If they can't be found, is there paperwork showing they were disposed of or surplused?

If they kept poor records for the others then isn't it possible they kept poor records for this one item also?

I don't know the legal statutes but it seems a logical argument.

Danwales · Mar 4, 2023

I think the right thing to do is contact NASA to see if they want their watch back. No price on a clear consience😀

pdxleaf · Mar 4, 2023

Danwales
I think the right thing to do is contact NASA to see if they want their watch back. No price on a clear consience😀

That's just it, is it really their watch?

Nobel Prize · Mar 4, 2023

NASA has not missed the watch, have they?...nor do they have any practical use for it. If someone that cares for it can enjoy it it's a better outcome IMO. Provided, of course, there's no foul play on obtaining it.

Me? I would hold on to it for a couple of years while I slowly completed my due diligence. If Nasa came after me for it....well....I just happened to get mugged on the way to their office.

Aroxx · Mar 4, 2023

I think the only way for NASA to properly destroy decommissioned equipment is to put it directly under the rockets on the launchpad. 3…2…1…we have decommissioning!

JwRosenthal · Mar 4, 2023

Danwales
I think the right thing to do is contact NASA to see if they want their watch back. No price on a clear consience😀

The correct thing to do would be to have an attorney contact nasa about the disposition of a specific piece of property with serial #xxxx. If they confirm that the watch was surplussed and your ownership is free and clear, then that proof from them actually works to your benefit when/if time to sell- there will be no confusion on provenience and their confirmation of the property’s chain of custody itself is even better than Omega extract.
If they claim it is their still their property, then the burden of proof is on them since they haven’t been in possession of it for some time.

I just bought this... help

pdxleaf

Aroxx

SC1

SC1

rcs914

SC1

Olhenry56

Spacefruit

STANDY

Duracuir1

watchyouwant

bags1971

gatorcpa

JwRosenthal

pdxleaf

Danwales

pdxleaf

Nobel Prize

Aroxx

JwRosenthal

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