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ghce
·WW2 survivors? NAZI instead of NASA? Oh Dear....
Now where did all those German rocket scientist and engineers go...... lol
I just bought this... help
Now where did all those German rocket scientist and engineers go...... lol
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SC1
·Another couple pages and I'm betting bucks this hits peak "OP is John Lennon" and the "OP's watch was involved in Kennedy's assassination."
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pdxleaf
·Maybe we're all a victim of ChatGPT AI?
"Start an interesting thread about a Speedmaster watch"
"Start an interesting thread about a Speedmaster watch"
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Passover
·
It's obvious that there are differences in lighting and angle of both pictures but is this the same font/type?
The OP one seems to be broader, more pronounced..
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JwRosenthal
·Cloak-and-dagger or mundane fear-of-consquences, the murky ownership of the watch represents a financial risk for seller, buyer, and auction house, so I think that William's point is valid. And apparently it's not just hypothetical, a watch was pulled from a major auction previously, regardless of the details. Without more assurance that the watch can be legitimately sold (or even legally possessed), there is a toxic aspect to owning the watch IMO.
Since you have first-hand expertise in this area, maybe you can describe in detail how someone would go about getting information about the disposition of the 56 NASA Speedmasters that have been discussed.
So let’s say that you as John Q Ctizen came across a vintage Hasselblad and wanted to know where it came from. You did a little research and discover by the serial number (if Hasselblad actually kept records the same way Omega does) that it was delivered to a vendor in the US by customer order by a US Government agency.
Your first line of inquiry would be to the Comm’s or PR department of that agency (they are the public facing part of the agency). I would start the inquiry as simply as possible- something like this:
“Greetings, I have recently acquired what appears to be surplussed NASA equipment with a property number and wish to verify that this item is free and clear of any government ownership. Can you please put me in touch with the agencies property manager so I can get verification that it was indeed surplussed”.
They would either tell you to go away and they don’t care (you keep that email) or they will forward you to the property manager for the agency unless they decide to handle the inquiry as the public facing POC.
The manager will have records on every piece of inventoried property (not consumables) going back 7 years. Beyond that all records are sent to an agency archives manager per NARA standards (either in-house or records would have been sent to NARA).
The agency archives manager should be able to retrieve all records pertaining to every piece of property- from who ordered it, how much it cost, the justification for the expense, to whom it was issued, and when/how it was disposed.
If the information is not classified, it would fall under freedom of information act.
Obviously this inquiry would raise eyebrows and start an official inquiry if these were lost/stolen. But at least it would be going through the front door with a definitive answer.
Edited:
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JwRosenthal
·I will add to the above- if one wanted to research the history of these watches, all government agencies maintain an archives and most historic agencies a historian. It is very common to have researches and scholars make inquiries about specific topics for which they are entitled to an answer by way of the freedom of information act. Most agencies are very helpful with this giving access to unclassified documents- but most require you physically visit the archives by appointment.
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Dan S
·If the information is not classified, it would fall under freedom of information act.
This is what I suspect, that one would have the submit an official FOIA request, knowing the specific property number, etc.
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JwRosenthal
·This is what I suspect, that one would have the submit an official FOIA request, knowing the specific property number, etc.
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RevZMan123
·I agree. Would an e-mail to NASA's public relations department do the trick? Or would it bring to their attention that someone has something they shouldn't have? It kinda reminds me of the children's story about the mice who thought it was a good idea to put a bell on the cat. Except there were no volunteers...
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Dan S
·Yes. As I said, it’s not uncommon for historians or scholars to make inquires for historical data- particularly with an agency like NASA. They have people who handle these requests and this would be no different.
Well, it would probably involve some effort, but it would be worth it for the OP.
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Shabbaz
·This could be a contender for thread of the year. And we're still in February!
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JwRosenthal
·Well, it would probably involve some effort, but it would be worth it for the OP.
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Nobel Prize
··Spell Master!Then perhaps just say you're doing research on Omega Speedmasters issued to Nasa. Particularly the Serials 10XX and P/N SED12100312-301
That would be a way to find out what "should" have happened to it.
That would be a way to find out what "should" have happened to it.
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SC1
·98% certain all roads lead to Yoko Ono regarding this watch.
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JwRosenthal
·Then perhaps just say you're doing research on Omega Speedmasters issued to Nasa. Particularly the Serials 10XX and P/N SED12100312-301
That would be a way to find out what "should" have happened to it.
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Nobel Prize
··Spell Master!Agreed. There is no reason they should withhold this information unless a criminal case is pending or the items are marked as classified.
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JwRosenthal
·Now where did all those German rocket scientist and engineers go...... lol
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JwRosenthal
·At which point....run!!!
I would think to a horological scholar, this would make for a wonderful article or added research into Omega’s connection to the space program. We know they were ordered, we assume they were delivered- but what happened to them after that? All the information is there- it just needs to be put together by someone interested enough to put in the time and effort.
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MCC
·😗😗😗😗😗😗🍿It is a real shame that the discussion about the watch itself has been overshadowed by our speculation about who has rightful ownership to it. I would certainly be interested to know about the family that sold the watch to the OP and how they came by the watch.
Having said that I cannot help but add my twopence in here. While it is generally true that you cannot give better title to something than you have yourself, I think the OP could rely on the doctrine of a bona fide purchaser for value without notice. In other words if the OP bought in good faith, paid a reasonable and defendable sum and made reasonable enquiries then the original owners ( ie the Govt) may we prevented from recovering the watch. It is not precisely clear how the transaction was concluded and documented but there might well be another way of this staying in private hands.😗🍿
Having said that I cannot help but add my twopence in here. While it is generally true that you cannot give better title to something than you have yourself, I think the OP could rely on the doctrine of a bona fide purchaser for value without notice. In other words if the OP bought in good faith, paid a reasonable and defendable sum and made reasonable enquiries then the original owners ( ie the Govt) may we prevented from recovering the watch. It is not precisely clear how the transaction was concluded and documented but there might well be another way of this staying in private hands.😗🍿
