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Forstner 1450 bracelet sneak peek

S
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
The using of the model name I understand to clarify which model they are trying to emulate (copy), but does that infringe on IP?

They are not doing anything even remotely infringing. They do not use logos or brand names and they are in some cases using a string of numbers which represents a particular model but unless Omega has an active trademark on that string of numbers they are not infringing. There’s absolutely no legal issue and to be honest, the policy against this is crazy and antiquated.

when there is no attempt to deceive the consumer there should be no issue.
 
S
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cvalue13 cvalue13
how next do we feel about those that mod them to appear ‘original’

if I buy a Uncle Seiko bracelet and spend my money buying an original Omega clasp to stick on it, and it’s for my own enjoyment and I never try to sell it off as original (not sure how you could since the original 1711s didn’t have solid links) then it’s no ones damn business.
Eg.
0A086B5E-1750-4735-B887-202C72B28230.jpeg 1A06B358-AF5F-479D-8A12-6B450746A656.jpeg
 
cvalue13
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S SlCKB0Y
if I buy a Uncle Seiko bracelet and...

yes, "if"...

and nice to meet you, too

S SlCKB0Y
They do not use logos or brand names

Time will tell; look around at some of Uncle's cheeky posts with *winks* and "notice any similarities 😉" type innuendo after recently modifying his clasp logos to look verrry familiar (guess what an upside down "U" looks like).

All the subtle innuendo in the world doesn't change the obvious intent and careful speaking to thread the needle of not infringing on U.S. trade/patent laws.

But that means (1) some people can still rightfully view as relevant the spirit rather than letter of U.S. laws, and (2) be confused why U.S. law is our only compass regarding how we view the products?

People seem so quick to retreat entirely to "it's not breaking any [U.S.] laws, so it's obviously ok."

But consider this hypothetical: what if Uncle would be breaking UK/EU laws if his Omega products were stocked in/shipped out of the EU/UK? So, in that hypothetical, we discover he's legal in the U.S. but illegal in the EU/UK? Where do you retreat now?

But look, here's the deal: I truly don't care if a surely good guy wants to make a living for his family by threading the needle of U.S. trade/patent laws by providing a product obviously wanted by our community.

Instead, I'm uncomfortable with the community's double standard RE knock off bracelets (let's enthusiastically help crowd-source their product designs!) vs knock off watches (forbidden to be spoken of always, everywhere), because it's plain to me there is hypocrisy at play.

And, I dislike the community's double-speak, "homage" code words, and apparent reluctance to just say what we really mean when it comes to these bracelets: unlike with knock off watches, we want knock off bracelet so bad that we'll all *wink,* split hairs, and suddenly use narrow escapes from black-letter law as our guiding principle.

That's just my opinion, which is worth nothing more or less than yours.

 
SkunkPrince
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Might as well complain about the millions (literally) of watches that look enough like Rolex.

These two guys are making similar bracelets that are compatible with Omega but do not look exactly like Omega, There are differences. The United States has a "reasonable person" standard. If a mythical "reasonable person" would not believe these bracelets were made by Omega or whichever else they resemble, then there is no infringement. I do not know what standards other countries have, but there's no point in complaining about it.

If thy bracelet offends thee, pluck it off!
 
S
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cvalue13 cvalue13
look around at some of Uncle's cheeky posts with *winks* and "notice any similarities 😉" type innuendo after recently modifying his clasp logos to look verrry familiar (guess what an upside down "U" looks like)

He has been doing this since forever.
His Seiko rubber dive straps have a play on the Seiko “wave” motif.

I think you really need to consider that there is a valid difference, both legally and morally between an homage and a counterfeit or “knock off” as you called it.
The latter usually directly infringes on trademarks, such as brand names and logos, but more importantly the intent to deceive is often a central characteristic.

secondly, with the exception of the 1171 almost everything Larry makes is out of production and the only way to buy them is on the used market where the prices for a relatively beat up bracelet can be in the thousands.

Finally, another reason why we seem more accepting of homage bracelets and straps is because unlike homage watches, Larry’s products are significantly better in quality than the original OEM pieces ever were, this is almost never the case with the actual homage watches.

and most importantly, Larry and his products are accepted by us, because he IS one of us, and most of his products are designed and developed with the input of the community and he then charges what I would consider to be vert reasonable prices. His 1171 is objectively better quality in almost every way compared to Omega’s and he is charging 20% of the price.
 
cvalue13
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SkunkPrince SkunkPrince
Might as well complain about the millions (literally) of watches that look enough like Rolex.

If you mean eg Steinharts, I do. 👍

And in case you’re not tracking the conversation, so too does OF generally (read the posting rules - they and similar brands are forbidden)
 
SkunkPrince
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cvalue13 cvalue13
If you mean eg Steinharts, I do. 👍

And in case you’re not tracking the conversation, so too does OF generally (read the posting rules - they and similar brands are forbidden)
Would you believe I have a Citizen mechanical that looks a lot like an Oyster?

Looks like this except mine has a champagne dial.
 
citizen_eagle_7_nos_1565413571_b12f0d3e0_progressive.jpeg
cvalue13
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S SlCKB0Y
I think you really need to consider that there is a valid difference, both legally and morally between an homage and a counterfeit or “knock off”

I hear your view. And I’m aware of the general position you take.

In my view, however, I think:

(1) “homage” is fluffy b.s. marketing claptrap intended exactly to allow people to avoid saying “knock off”

(2) the meaning and definition of “knock off” is not limited to fakes that infringe on patent/iP/trademark; in history, and the Oxford dictionary, knock off equally and historically means a “copy or imitation of something popular”

The same people who taught you the word “homage” also convinced you “knock off” means something more limited.

but your response is helpful in that it is a good example of the type of double-talk and needle threading I mentioned

PS: I should mention that no, there is no legal definition at play
 
SkunkPrince
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cvalue13 cvalue13
PS: I should mention that no, there is no legal definition at play
Actually, at least in the United States, we are led to believe there is. A counterfeit item meant to fool some sucker into paying full price, commonly called a "knock off", is indeed illegal and will get a person prosecuted.
 
VickMacky
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I was super close to getting your flatlink but imma wait for this. I think it’s more my taste. Hopefully soon
 
Pazzo
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S SlCKB0Y
He has been doing this since forever.
His Seiko rubber dive straps have a play on the Seiko “wave” motif.

...............................................................................................................................

and most importantly, Larry and his products are accepted by us, because he IS one of us, ...

......

Only to end up changing his clasp to an "original" Omega one.
 
SkunkPrince
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If you had quoted my "blah blah blah" you would have realized that knockoffs are as close to the real thing as you can get including counterfeit labels, hang tags, and so forth... with the intent to deceive. I don't think that either of these men are trying to deceive anyone.

The term has been used this way for decades, frequently regarding women's fashion items such as purses, dresses, and shoes.

"Want a good deal on this Omega watch bracelet? Fell off the back of a truck!" is not what you're dealing with.

Going to put on my WatchCo Seamaster 300 with Forstner flat-link now.
 
cvalue13
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SkunkPrince SkunkPrince
knockoffs are as close to the real thing as you can get including counterfeit labels, hang tags, and so forth... with the intent to deceive. I

Look, this is an issue of semantics. We disagree about the definition and historical breadth of the term “knockoff.” Fine.

So I’ll turn the tables: as soon as someone can explain a rational and clearly not bs loaded definition of “homage,” I’ll listen.

How about we all just say the word “imitation.” And leave it at that.

SkunkPrince SkunkPrince
Going to put on my WatchCo Seamaster 300 with Forstner flat-link now.

I have one, too.

I just don’t mind telling people in no uncertain terms that it’s a knock off made to look like an Omega.
 
Uncle Seiko
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**to wit, on another thread, one of these company’s appeared to gave ‘wink-wink, nudge-nudge’ reasons for why the flatlink is not available from their non-U.S. location

Sorry to be so late in the game on commenting, and hopefully it's ok to resurrect this older thread. I just want to be super clear here: Not selling any of my Omega offerings through the UK store has nothing to do with any copyright laws, patents, or concern over infringement. Just sharing this to put that rumor to rest. I was going to write out an explanation as to why, but decided that it's really not necessary to post it on a public forum. It's a financial decision and I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for the interesting subject matter and I really appreciate @Forstnerbands for chiming in and being transparent. He's a good guy. 😀
Edited:
 
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