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Forstner 1450 bracelet sneak peek

mzinski
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Which brings me to your point of hate of Steinhart being a “class thing” - doesn’t your argument also cut the opposite direction? Conspicuous consumption causes people to spend $600 on an “homage” Rolex so that it appears they have a Rolex, instead of spending their money on a new Zodiac Sea Wolf or any number of incredible but less “Rolex” options

I hope you don't mind if I latch on to the tangent you've presented as moments after I posted my response my mind went wild thinking about precisely this. I think this is a really interesting topic that goes beyond watches. The heart of it questions what defines our taste.

Do we (people) like Rolex because the design is good or do we like Rolex because the watch is valuable? I have a hard time answering this. I don't think it's a black or white answer. But from the perspective of design and consumption I think it's a really important question to consider.

Because the way you've framed your question, why do people want a watch that looks like another brand (if I may paraphrase), it seems you assume the answer to taste (beauty) is about value. I don't believe this is a truth. What we find beautiful is contextual (including value, familiarity, culture, personal, etc) but I'd go so far as to say it is intrinsic to objects crossing over context. Maybe to rephrase what I'm saying, beauty is intrinsic but context can influence how we see beauty.

This is all to say, maybe the Zodiac Sea Wolf is not a beautiful watch, maybe Rolex is a beautiful watch, and maybe people want a beautiful watch.
 
cvalue13
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Roosa Roosa
This post is not legal advice.

And mine was 3-dark-and-stormys-into-the-evening advice

Mostly just a quip, as the poster was in essence saying “these companies are calling it the 1450 bracelet so that we won’t be confused that it’s supposed to be the Omega 1450 bracelet” ... which topic of “not being confused” I thought quip-worthy (given that TM infringement cases, quite aside from patent, turn on the issue of confusing buyers as to whether it’s from one company or the other)

But past the quips and dark-and-stormys, Forstner has itself on this thread noted that they are careful to call it a “1040-style” bracelet for these reasons...
 
cvalue13
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mzinski mzinski
I hope you don't mind if I latch on to the tangent you've presented

Not only do I not mind, I encourage it 😁

mzinski mzinski
Do we (people) like Rolex because the design is good or do we like Rolex because the watch is valuable? I have a hard time answering this. I don't think it's a black or white answer.

This is why I phrased my comment just so:

cvalue13 cvalue13
doesn’t your argument also cut the opposite direction?

It does seem to go both ways (and they’re not mutually exclusive).

But just the same...

mzinski mzinski
This is all to say, maybe the Zodiac Sea Wolf is not a beautiful watch, maybe Rolex is a beautiful watch, and maybe people want a beautiful watch.

... i suppose people can have have mixed reasons; or different people have either reason.

When you do figure it out pls let me know!
 
M'Bob
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Archer Archer
God you are insufferable..

What’s with the personal attacks? I’ve noticed a pattern with you that when you get into it with someone, you call them naive, you told me to relax when I disagreed with you, and now you are making another comment on someone’s personality.

You have a lot to offer here and many of your posts are interesting, clarifying, and informative. I know these topics can bring about a lot of strong opinions and emotions, but I see no reason for a bright guy like you to undermine your points by lowering the bar and resorting to jabbing someone when you get frustrated with their point of view.
 
Archer
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M'Bob M'Bob
What’s with the personal attacks? I’ve noticed a pattern with you that when you get into it with someone, you call them naive, you told me to relax when I disagreed with you, and now you are making another comment on someone’s personality.

You have a lot to offer here and many of your posts are interesting, clarifying, and informative. I know these topics can bring about a lot of strong opinions and emotions, but I see no reason for a bright guy like you to undermine your points by lowering the bar and resorting to jabbing someone when you get frustrated with their point of view.

Yes, not proud of that. But honestly to say that: "I don’t hold it personal to anyone who wants a Steinhart, either" and then go on to say they are deluding themselves calling it an homage so they can "stomach" it, really got under my skin...
 
M'Bob
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Based on the above exchange, it seems 1/2 our problem is your reading comprehension; also based on the above exchange, the other 1/2 might be that I don’t meekly absorb and genuflect to your own special brand of insufferable snugness simply because you’re a “watchmaker”?

To be fair about this, you didn’t have to take the bait and respond in kind. And the “watchmaker” in quotes was unnecessary. He is very much a real watchmaker, esteemed and certified. I’m getting tired of all this. You boys both to your rooms!
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Yes, not proud of that. But honestly to say that: "I don’t hold it personal to anyone who wants a Steinhart, either" and then go on to say they are deluding themselves calling it an homage so they can "stomach" it, really got under my skin...

With all due respect, @Archer, you continue to both (1) be upset about a missreading of what I said, and (2) attribute your misreading to me as nauseum.

Specifically:

mzinski mzinski
A "homage" shows respect or deference to the original. I'm not sure anyone has said it's okay to buy a knock-off. I do think some people have expressed their acceptance of a homage.

The message by @mzinski above was (A) people are not ok with “knock offs,” (B) people are ok with “homages.”

My post maintained that (X) “knock off” is a perfectly valid description of a Steinhart (as distinct from “fake”), and (Y) “homage” is a b.s. marketing term so that people don’t have to utter the words “knock off.”

From there, I assist your read:

cvalue13 cvalue13
I don’t hold it personal to anyone who wants a Steinhart, either - but IF they can ONLY stomach wearing one by calling it an “HOMAGE,” they’re PROBABLY fooling themselves...

I stand by that.

The new cal.321 is an homage to (and remake of) the original cal.321 watches. John Milton’s poem Paradise Lost is an homage to the biblical story of Adam and Eve. Manet’s Olympia is an homage to Titian’s Venus of Urbino.

This is not an “homage”:



[EDIT TO ADD: and this!?

upload_2021-1-5_9-55-24.jpeg
Edited:
 
upload_2021-1-5_9-55-24.jpeg
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
My post maintained that (X) “knock off” is a perfectly valid description of a Steinhart (as distinct from “fake”), and (Y) “homage” is a b.s. marketing term so that people don’t have to utter the words “knock off.”

In the common vernacular, a knock-off is a fake...these watches aren't fakes, so they are not knock-offs...see the first synonym below...

knockoff
[ˈnäkäf]
NOUN
knock-off (noun)
  1. a copy or imitation, especially of an expensive or designer product.
    "knockoff merchandise"
    synonyms:
    fake · faked · copied · forged · feigned · simulated · sham · spurious · bogus · imitation · substitute · dummy · ersatz · pirate · pirated · phoney · pseud · pseudo · cod · forgery · copy · reproduction · replica · likeness · lookalike · mock-up · fraud · rip-off · put-on · dupe
    antonyms:
    genuine · original

These are watches "made in the style of" another watch. If you don't like the word homage, that's up to you, but it is the common term used for these.

There's no reason that anyone should feel the need to use what you feel is a "BS marketing term" to feel okay with wearing one, because these are perfectly legit watches.
 
cvalue13
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M'Bob M'Bob
To be fair about this, you didn’t have to take the bait and respond in kind.

This is the internet @M’Bob; bait-taking is the prime directive.

To wit: Why is your comment above styled as though you’re responding to some interjection by me? I didn’t “like” your post about @Archer, I didn’t otherwise address your post, to you or anyone else - yet your post suggests I was engaging you or supporting your admonishing of @Archer?

Your post to @Archer seemed to have really been about something he said to you or others, and to only that extent didn’t seem like you were injecting in a conversation not having anything to do with you.

So, “to be fair” (to be faaaaaiiiiiirrrrrr)...

M'Bob M'Bob
And the “watchmaker” in quotes was unnecessary. He is very much a real watchmaker.

I intended literal scare quotes, not sarcastic scare quotes - as in, “no matter how curmudgeonly, gruff, and smug, everyone must cow down and absorb it because @Archer is a “watchmaker” (even when the topic has nothing to do with watchmaking).”

In truth, I think @Archer finds me so “insufferable” only because he sees more than a little of himself in me.
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
There's no reason that anyone should feel the need to use what you feel is a "BS marketing term" to feel okay with wearing one, because these are perfectly legit watches.

Ok cool, @Archer; that’s your view.

I have a different view, and that should be cool, too. 👍

Now let’s move this piss fit to WUS where it belongs.
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
In truth, I think @Archer finds me so “insufferable” only because he sees more than a little of himself in me.

Me, reading this...



😉
Edited:
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Me, reading this...

Then it’s official: we’ve concluded the first act in this “Miss-matched Buddy” movie.

Like the greats before us (Eddie Murphy/Nick Nolte; Mel Gibson/Danny Glover; John Candy/Steve Martin), the bad news is that around two-thirds of the way through this movie, we’ll “break up” again (either due to a big personal revelation/betrayal or a devastating failure to complete a task).

But the good news is that by the end of this film, we’ll reunite to overcome our given obstacle and cement our new status as BFFs.

Meanwhile, @M’Bob:

upload_2021-1-5_11-23-28.jpeg
 
M'Bob
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Then it’s official: we’ve concluded the first act in this “Miss-matched Buddy” movie.

Like the greats before us (Eddie Murphy/Nick Nolte; Mel Gibson/Danny Glover; John Candy/Steve Martin), the bad news is that around two-thirds of the way through this movie, we’ll “break up” again (either due to a big personal revelation/betrayal or a devastating failure to complete a task).

But the good news is that by the end of this film, we’ll reunite to overcome our given obstacle and cement our new status as BFFs.

Meanwhile, @M’Bob:

upload_2021-1-5_11-23-28.jpeg

I sincerely hope that Judd Apatow has not been privy to this last post. Because the combination of popular-culture references, psychological insight, and just raw entertainment value would leave me quite unsettled, were I him. And to think: all this goodness can come from your mom’s basement!
 
cvalue13
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M'Bob M'Bob
And to think: all this goodness can come from your mom’s basement!

I believe what you're trying to say is

DifferentEnchantedAffenpinscher-max-1mb.gif
 
padders
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This is getting TL;DR and frankly a little boring. cv, give it a rest, neither Forstner nor Uncle Seiko are infringing any intellectual property and the ins and outs of what is moral is rather an ethereal and irrelevant debate.

I couldn't give a toss if Steinharts are allowed on here or not, that is more a RF thing.

The bracelets are great, end of.
Edited:
 
SkunkPrince
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padders padders
The bracelets are great, end of.

You remind me of the Gene Hunt character on "Life on Mars", which I thoroughly enjoyed.
 
Pazzo
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Archer Archer
Me, reading this...



😉

I recognized that face the moment I saw him.
 
Forstnerbands
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Lol - in the spirit of the original post, I’d welcome comments/thoughts/requests on the bracelet design. It’s still being tweaked so could incorporate suggestions.
 
Pazzo
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@Forstnerbands

Do you think that this band will be able to be worn by those having 6" or thereabouts wrists, please?
 
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