I thought it was established here that all GENE VE dials were fake?

 

I'm on a bigger screen right now and see what you mean regarding the chrome treatment, very flashy metal with some mark spots especially around the dial.... still not as bad as others we have seen but suspicious...
has anyone seen a second generation that was not a fake (sharpers lugs, fatter dial, ...)?

 

Hi, I posted on this forum several months ago when I first inherited a polerouter sub (1st execution) from my father. I am not planning to sell it. Forum members recommended that I get the watch serviced because it has sat for several years. I promptly put it away in a drawer and got busy with other things.

Now I'm looking for advice on how to select a Swiss-watch specialist who is knowledgeable about this specific watch. To compound matters, I don't live near any major city, so I can't just drop by a shop. How do other forum members go about selecting a watch expert to service their rare watches? Is any technician who is trained to work on swiss watches trained to work on *vintage* watches like this model?

Advice on selecting an expert who can service the movement, seals, and polish the crystal is much appreciated.

 

I seem to have found a second execution example. It has the spaced out "Gene ve", aged lume that looks consistent, and a non chrome case with no pitting. Thoughts?

 

It looks again like an Australian production. The case does not look like high quality steel, it is showing black spots and scratches. Also the crowns look crude. Swiss is partially hidden on the dial. I have seen this watch before and there is another one on a auction right now that looks very similar https://www.sterlingvault.co.uk. By the way I did write them to indicate my doubts about authenticity, no reply of course and current bid is at 1400 pounds.
The general opinion on this forum is that someone had some dials and hands, than fabricated cases and used microrotors movement from donor watches. They go for anywhere between 3k to 6k euro and i'm puzzled that someone would pay this amount of money for what is a best a franken with a case that looks very bad to me.
hope it helps,
cheers,
Laurent

 

The space between Geneve is enough tell tale to avoid.

 

I entirely agree. Apart from the 'GENE VE", the dull case with a heavily scratched finish is also a giveaway. There looks to be pitting on both sides of the caseback.

I'm not sure I've ever seen an entirely convincing second execution.

 

Just for the pleasure of sharing, first execution...

 

Hi, I posted on this thread over a year ago when I inherited an authentic polerouter sub (first execution) from my father and had questions about servicing it. I spent some time researching an antique watch specialist who could do service and found one that had the credentials. I sent the watch off for a service; he cleaned and polished the case, oiled, and replaced some parts that indicated wear with NOS parts he acquired. The watch looks gorgeous and keeps very accurate time now; I wear it daily.

However, I noticed that it makes a very distinct sound that I did not notice before I sent it off. I asked the specialist what he thought, and he said it was a normal sound of the auto-wind ratchet. Still, it is much louder than on other automatic watches that I have seen (though I haven't ever owned another myself). I just wanted a second opinion from the community on here. What is "normal" for sound coming from the auto-wind mechanism? Specifically, if I hold my arm out and oscillate my wrist around my arm axis from 6 to 12 o'clock, I can very clearly hear a clicking with each oscillation. I am not holding the watch to my ear--this is extended in front of me the distance of my keyboard .

Note that it may have made the sound previously--I didn't wear it for more than a day or so before members here advised me to send it for inspection and service...so perhaps I simply didn't take note of the sound. In any event, I wanted to hear from others who have an identical version of the watch to share their opinions.

 

very interesting to see your picture of your first execution. Mine looks identical in nearly every respect except that there are no holes for the spring bar that go through to the outside of the lugs. Is this a feature that can help differentiate variants?

 

I have seen pictures from the 60ties with and without the holes, apparently lugs with holes are less commun then with and are considered exceptions.

Regarding the noise, mine does exactly the same when I shake it gently, it is a tic tic noise, not very loud, and I had it checked by my watchmaker. He told me nothing was loose inside (rotor, ...) and he believes the inner bezel may have some play, but nothing to worry about.

Cheers,

Laurent

 

Hi, I have a feeling the microtor is loose and wobbly, making it bang the inside of the caseback. This happened to my Polerouter NS before, which I have since returned to the seller. Do you have a movement and caseback picture?

 

Hey guys, look what I found!

A classic thread such as this needs bumping once in a while




Note the UG crown at 2 o'clock. I don't think it's been discussed in this thread, but I've seen it before and think it may be a normal variant and not a replacement. For example:
http://www.polerouter.de/images/collection/polerouter49-big.jpg

Also note the case back. No 'HF'. It's been suggested in this thread that the case back should be marked HF, but I've only seen that on "Genè ve" watches.

And the bezel lume on this one almost seems to have been applied by a professional.

 

From what I read the mismatched crowns are by design- the larger crown to move the bezel so that the diver can tell the difference easily by touch and larger making it more functional in it's purpose than a smaller would be. Mine says hi! also without HF on caseback.

 

Thanks for that information! And also for the look inside the case back... I see there is also a French language version.

 

And dibs

 

Hi, time to revive this thread with something that "might be" more convincing for a 2nd execution ;-)

Forgot to add: watch is powered by a cal 215 and signed Universal Geneve and SWISS only (no HF hallmark).
Another thing to spot fakes is to look at inner case back. There should always be a specific space in the thread of the screwback. Not sure I am clear but look at pictures of the assumed fakes and the genuines and you will see the difference.

 

Taking first the positives:
- there is no space between 'GEN' and 'EVE'
- the case appears to be better than the poor grey marked cases you often see with 2nd Execs

And then the negatives:
- the lume looks very flat and doesn't seem to have any age to it
- the case back seems to have been recently polished with a circular finish and I cannot see a serial or case reference number

The watch does have various characteristics that we associate with a 2nd Exec (lug shape, font on inner bezel, lack of lume on inner bezel, font used for dial text etc) but it has done little to convince me that there were 2nd Exec first generation Polerouter Subs that left the UG factory looking like this.

I would be interested in seeing the inside of the case back and also the movement.

 

Just to avoid any mistakes here, this comes from a collection that was collected way before any fakes were out on the market. Relume job has very probably been done on this one and you are right to point this out. However apart from that I don't see any other point to say it is not genuine. Font on inner bezel is identical to 1st exec, not fat like the presumed 2nd execution which I believe are not genuine. Lack of lume also happens on 1st exec by the way so this can not be conclusive.
I am still looking to see a 2nd exec 1st gen Polerouter Sub 100% untouched and most importantly genuine...
And about caseback markings, there are very often long gone on UGs that have some wear history.