I would love to look more closely but you will need to attach some hi-res photographs correctly.
I'm not sure what you've done but you need to use the 'Add Photos' button when creating your post.
No problem, thanks for the photos.
It's not one of the 'Australian' fakes that we've seen.
Lots of positives in my opinion - case looks great, crowns seem to be the correct UG versions, correct narrow font on the bezel and you even have the correct brick link bracelet ( 22mm 'U' end links?).
Aside from the obvious fact that it's missing the Polerouter Sub text, my only concern would be that your lume, both on the dial and in the hands, looks very fresh and tidy for a watch that is almost 60 years old.
It would be interesting to see the movement and the inside of the case back.
Are the case reference and serial numbers present on the outside of the case back?
Dear all,
I am pretty new to this forum so let me quickly introduce myself. I like a healthy mixture of new and vintage pieces - mainly Omega.
I am pretty new to the vintage UG chapter and your information helped me a lot.
I guess I found another pre UG SUB without the ’Polerouter Sub' text.
It has no lume plots and a lumed triangle at the inner bezel.
What do you guys think - 'pre' or 'fake'?
I note that this watch is in a forthcoming auction. Are you connected with the auction house or a potential buyer?
Based on the very hi-res images available, I would say that the dial has been relumed because I think you can just about make out the original tiny lume dots underneath each relumed marker.
On a positive note, it looks like the case reference and serial numbers are present on the case back.
€8300 inc fees, reasonably cheap with the bracelet.
Here’s another one that’s just been sold in Geneva https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/universal-ref-20369-1-polerouter-sub-lot-324-295?page=1&q=
I’m amazed by the amount of variation in these very early examples. This one has twin large crowns and all silver text.
Interesting example on eBay although a bit tired. No Polerouter Sub text, fully lumed hour markers and lumed triangle. Looks legit though. Case, crowns etc ok and numbers present on case back.
I really really wish I had recorded all of the serial numbers of these as that way we might have been able to spot patterns.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-UNIVERSAL-GENEVE-DIVER-AUTOMATIC-MEN-WATCH-/401965661829
The example with the Tiffany signed dial sold at Antiquorum in 2010 is currently for sale on eBay.
I have posted the pictures below for prosperity, which to the seller's credit are numerous and of decent quality.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-...ffany-Co-Dive-Wristwatch-RARE-NR/202905457461
If you believe the dial to perhaps be a service dial and the font of Tiffany & co to be later perhaps mid 1960’s maybe even later, why would radium still be used at the factory to make a service dial when radium dials ceased to be used in swiss watches after the dangers in radium was revealed after 1962-63? The seller states the dial has a very high Geiger reading and the UV pic is correct so I seriously doubt this dial to be a service dial of some kind made that time range of mid to late 60s or 1970. Dials just weren’t made with radium anymore later.
