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  1. S.H. Sep 27, 2023

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    Also, why the f### would someone bother paying for a "restored" watch that would look like a new one, with all the problems that a vintage watch already has, minus the value /authenticity ?

    Just buy a new one, a reissue, a vintage inspired micro brand, whatever... And just enjoy a waterproof problem free watch.
     
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  2. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 27, 2023

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    The only good results I’ve had myself from trying to improve dials is getting surface mould spots removed by a watchmaker using light work with an eraser, the handful of times I’ve had them try going deeper it hasn’t ended well
     
  3. koppsg Sep 27, 2023

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    The before-n-after images of these dials is amazing. At first glance and before I REALLY looked hard, I would have sworn that the dials had been replaced and not repaired. It's very obvious that someone takes great pride in their work! I suspect that it's a bit of a lost art - hope not.
     
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  4. p4ul “WATERRROOP” to 50m Sep 27, 2023

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    upload_2023-9-27_16-59-59.jpeg
    FIFY.
     
  5. Davidt Sep 27, 2023

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    On the point that some owners aren’t collectors and just want a clean watch/dial, surely these customers would be happy with a new service dial.
     
    apsm100, DrmexicoII, Dan S and 2 others like this.
  6. Syrte MWR Tech Support Dept Sep 27, 2023

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    Until they sue you for ruining the value of their watch and they say as a professional you should have known better and stopped them from making the stupid mistake.

    what country are you in? Is it not a country where there’s laws that a professional should give their customers best advice?
     
  7. gbesq Sep 27, 2023

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    +1
     
  8. sheepdoll Sep 27, 2023

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    Well there is a reason I continue to research dial replication/restoration.

    And here I was thinking I could learn about a magic substance Z which does not involve running the camera in reverse.

    There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of watches made every year. So there is really no excuse for not having access to watches with 'clean' dials. Many which are new as made yesterday. If the old manufactures do not want to continue the old popular designs, then it is their loss.

    Where it gets dicey is when someone wants to flip something for a quick profit. I was taught that capitalism was making a profit from a better product than the competition. Where one feeds the capitol back into the business. Ironically some use these profits to lawyer up and prevent the competition from making a better product. Which then feeds back through such things as intellectual property. Where one is literally selling dreams and ideas which are basically a dime a dozen.

    Not sure what taking the profits to use for luxury items and trips wooed be called? Recently re read Nevi Shutes book _Ruined City_ also published as _Kindiling._ Based on Shute's own experience starting an Aircraft manufacture in the 1930s depression. The anti hero protagonists goes to gaol for bribery and corruption in the fictional Balkain state of Laevea. Where a 'diplomatic gift' of a jeweld green umbrella is used to get a valuable oil pipeline and shipping contract. Through a stock issue. Ironically in the real world Shute did not go to prison. His company was successful and he retired after selling the film rights to his novels to MGM for some rather successful films. Curiously his books are about dreams and drugs to induce altered states of conciseness and religous extract 1940s style. His real world predictions (On the Beach being his most famous novel/film) really uncanny. Especially when he and his admiralty department was the model of Q in the James bond film series.

    What really then is the difference between taxation and extortion? Is a little embezzlement here and there taking one's just profits? Shute in his autobiography _Slide Rule_ notes that the best people to sell stocks to are those who have made money flipping inherited real estate. Put a new coat of paint on the house (or Areoplane.) and one can quickly make a profit.
     
  9. YVR785 Sep 27, 2023

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    Again, I reiterate: any watchmaker worth his or her weight would not touch a vintage dial like that with a ten-foot pole.

    Not sure what OPs intentions are, but no one will pander to that type of recklessness. Watchmakers refuse service all the time for things like this.
     
  10. pokieaddict Sep 27, 2023

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    holy hell guys, I dont understand where you get this idea that im just going to do this willy nilly. Im not, I just want to be able to advertise that if someone was after it we can accomodate. I like leaving dials as they are, but we have had a few customers that have asked if we can fix up their dial and remove some scratches and some spots from years of abuse. its not that hard.
    Of course it whatever the customer wants its not like ill just be doing anything without their consent, as the same with refinishing. Not everyone is a insane collector some people just want their family heirloom to look like new.
    theres a reason i want to practice first before i can offer anything like this hence why im asking for advice, its going to takes years of practice before we even offer this to clients.....
    have been doing this long enough to have a large client base that hasnt had any issues so far so obviously im doing something right, it would just be nice to be a one stop place for all my clients rather than having to send the dial off to be repainting in china.


    Thanks to all the reccomended the prep H, have some in stock already - i have a few random dials laying around that on a off day will be used to test out :)
     
  11. sheepdoll Sep 27, 2023

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    The customer is ALWAYS right. Even when they are wrong.

    Be prepared to spend a few decades learning. I have been at this for 30 years. Also note some of this fine work is done by women and children in less than ideal conditions by western standards. For much of human history the smaller hands was considered an asset to such fine work. I should note I am a woman and have been told this often. That we are naturally more graceful and dexterous. There are also people who think women see more colors or differently then men.

    Most of my own experiments on dial repair have been less than satisfactory. You can use the google site: search on the forums to find many threads like this. Or see other examples.

    There is no magic short cut to hard work perseverance and talent. Mistaking luck for skill happens a lot more than many are willing to admit.

    Not all services can or should be offered.

    The thing is the customer may want the dial to look like new. When they pass on, tire of it etc it goes back into circulation. So the next generation has to deal with the problem.

    Sure 30 years ago there were services that restored dials. Companies were also willing to sell service dials. Then people began to take advantage of this. Swapping parts passing things off for what they are not.

    Such is human nature.

    As I said, If the customer wants a new watch. then they should buy a NEW watch. Which is what the manufactures want in this day and age.


    (I forgot I was in the editor:)
     
    Edited Sep 27, 2023
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  12. pokieaddict Sep 27, 2023

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    Im prepared to take years to get it - i think being able to get it as good as the supplied images will be a challenge but rewarding if I can get there - would be amazing to offer it to people :)
     
  13. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Sep 27, 2023

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    You send dials to China for refinishing? Where are you based?
     
    sheepdoll likes this.
  14. pokieaddict Sep 27, 2023

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    I havent personally sent anything, but i know Michael Young is someone who does them, im yet to actually send anything as too hesitant to send dials via post, normally the ones that ask are for old seamasters/devilles, nothing special but run of the mill stuff. at this stage we just flat out say we cant offer that service hence why ild like to start researching it and start the long time practice of it before anything
     
  15. S.H. Sep 28, 2023

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    I've sent two dials in the only shop in my country that does it for watches with no collectible value, I don't bother anymore.

    Either you have discerning customers willing to pay and they won't be satisfied, results are rarely satisfactory (not even speaking about perfect). Also a new looking dial in an old case looks awful. Or less discerning people usually won't want to pay for a clean job.

    I've heard about and seen pretty redials coming out of South Korea, if you have connections here...
     
    Syrte likes this.
  16. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Sep 28, 2023

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    Vietnam.
     
  17. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Sep 28, 2023

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    Syrte likes this.
  18. superdave Nov 9, 2023

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    Greg from True Patina is the guy working on the 5517 in the You Tube vid
     
  19. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Nov 9, 2023

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    I’ve read the thread above with great interest, as I have always thought that someone eventually will come with a way to restore or produce acceptable replacement dials at a reasonable cost using modern technology. So far it hasn’t happened. Here are two examples where people got close.

    First person is Sonny Dewan. Please read this article from Desmond’s Blog.

    https://download1647.mediafire.com/...le2I-Q/95vk6v80cli5h8z/Seamaster_Conserve.pdf

    Sonny would only conserve solid gold dials. He knew that other metals used for dials like brass and silver would chemically react with his mix of lacquer solvents. Eventually, the U.S. government declared one of his ingredients as a hazardous material, and the suppliers could no longer legally sell to him. So that was the end of Sonny’s gold dial restoration business.

    The 2nd example was Internatonal Dial. This company, originally based in Ohio, was a supplier of dials for Hamilton, back in the 1920’s through the 1940’s. They developed the “Baker” finish and used it to restore dials of certain American made watches. They also owned, or reproduced dies using original methods from the early 20th Century. If you had the right kind of American wristwatch, you could basically get an as new dial, using the methods and dies that were used when it was new. However, their work on Swiss dials was less than stellar as they did not have access to the original materials and processes like they did for American watches.

    Unfortunately, this is a very niche business. The original family sold it off around 2018. The new owners moved it to Arizona. It didn’t last long there, and the dip in the business during the COVID pandemic killed International Dial off for good.

    The issue with redials with Omega, as I see it, is that no one has access to dies, materials and knowledge of the thousands of different patterns used to originally produce dials that would be up to 80 years old today.

    Time is not on our side.
    gatorcpa
     
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  20. Dan S Nov 9, 2023

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    Yes, that was why I mentioned his name. But apparently he is not an OF member, or he chose not to contribute to this thread. But as I mentioned previously, he does participate on a different forum, if the OP wants to get his feedback.