165.014 dagger dial restoration - radium removal!

[Omegaboy1990]

Hi Folks,
Looking for some guidance.

This will be a controversial topic for some of you but I managed to grab the below 300 for a steal. The plan is to remove the radium from the dial and hands and have it relumed. I have a professional who is happy to do this in a safe environment and safely dispose of the radium.

Can someone let me know if the dagger dials in the early Seamaster 300s have the radium filled into the dagger dials once the sandwich dial is put together or is the radium applied to the back plate and then both parts fitted. The reason I ask is due to me having the dial refinished to remove all of the radium. I do not want any radium present as plan on this being my daily wearer.

 

[Dan S]

If you really insist on ruining this watch, why not send it to someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[Omegaboy1990]

@Dan S It will be going to someone that has serviced countless of my watches over the years and I trust them to do a good job. I am just looking for advice to understand how the dial is manufactured and radium applied from the factory. We as collectors still have no idea how much the radium may degrade dials over next couple of hundred years. What I am doing may be seen as idiotic today but may be seen as saving more of the originally in a couple hundred years once the radium has blistered and destroyed many other collectors dials. I don’t see what I am doing to be any less distasteful that restoring a vintage car and spraying a non lead primer or having the clocks refurbished. Think of singer the Porsche builder. They are saving many old porches and improving them.

 

[Dan S]

I am just saying that if you aren't an expert on how the lume was applied, you should send it to someone who is. I have no interest in abetting the destruction of the originality of this rare surviving example. And the fact that your watchmaker has serviced your movements is irrelevant. Dial restoration is a totally separate issue, and few watch repair shops know what they're doing.

The vintage car analogy is a very poor one, as is often noted on the forum. Collectors of vintage cars and watches value totally different things. Obviously it's your watch and you can do what you want to it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is going to be distasteful to collectors and enthusiasts who value history and originality. Especially for a reference like this with relatively few original examples surviving.

 

[Omegaboy1990]

Dan S

I am just saying that if you aren't an expert on how the lume was applied, you should send it to someone who is. I have no interest in abetting the destruction of the originality of this rare surviving example. And the fact that your watchmaker has serviced your movements is irrelevant. Dial restoration is a totally separate issue, and few watch repair shops know what they're doing.

The vintage car analogy is a very poor one, as is often noted on the forum. Collectors of vintage cars and watches value totally different things. Obviously it's your watch and you can do what you want to it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is going to be distasteful to collectors and enthusiasts who value history and originality. Especially for a reference like this with relatively few original examples surviving.

All things considered do you have someone in mind that would be appropriate to carry out the work based in the UK?

 

[Dan S]

Omegaboy1990

All things considered do you have someone in mind that would be appropriate to carry out the work based in the UK?

Try a search. There is one person always recommended.

 

[gbesq]

Big, big, big, HUGE mistake. But, hey, that’s just me. If you’re going to insist on doing this, James Hyman at the Alchemist Relumer is the guy you want.

 

[Dsloan]

I wouldn't do this... But as an alternative: what about sourcing replacement dial and hands and storing or selling the original parts?

 

[kox]

Omegaboy1990

Can someone let me know if the dagger dials in the early Seamaster 300s have the radium filled into the dagger dials once the sandwich dial is put together or is the radium applied to the back plate and then both parts fitted.

It is not a ‘sandwich’ dial. Only one solid part with recessed wells filled with lume from the front.

 

[size11s]

As far as I know James Hyman won't remove the radium from dials anymore, he asks for it to be done before sending to him. I agree with the consensus, it's a lovely dial, I wouldn't change it even if a daily wearer, but it's your watch. Out of interest have you had a geiger counter on it? The hands look like they might not be radium, if this is the case the geiger count might not be too high, particularly out of the case back rather than crystal.

 

[mseamaster]

Personally I don't think it's possible for the radium to emit a meaningful dose of harmful radiation through the lume.(considering there's always a constant level of radiation anyway, and a lot more if you're flying for example, so we don't live in a radiation free environment anyway). I would wear it as is. And I am a bit of a paranoid when it comes to most things too.(I wear a mask when drilling/cutting, I ventilate with an 100W fan when soldering and so on).

That being said I second the opinion above, checking the radiation is a must to help you alleviate that.

As for the dial deteriorating in hundreds of years - it will happen for sure if it's worn daily - high humidity, strong sun, condensation(possibly), very low temperatures in winter, high in summer, etc. Not to mention the case will get scratches and the crystal too. After all, why are most vintage watches in a shit condition, if not for being worn as daily drivers.

I think you need to store it in a controlled temperature, humidity and without strong sun.(a dry air conditioned storage room) if you want it to last hundreds of years.

 

[seekingseaquest]

I know this isn’t your question, but I’ll offer the advice anyway because as someone who collects strictly non-radium watches, I’ve debated this strategy myself.

I think you should sell the watch and purchase a nice original non-luminous watch (there are many more options than you think - I have a whole collection of them) or a SM300 reissue as a daily wearer instead. There’s no guarantee you’ll get rid of all of the radium, or at least the concern will remain in the back of your mind. Plus, as others have implied, if you appreciate vintage watches (it seems you do), there are obvious negatives of ‘ruining’ a surviving original dial. I would not be surprised at all if this is a decision you come to regret, for example if you later decide to sell the watch.