Vintage Omega Dial Restoration

[hen]

This is really impressive to me who don`t know whats going on with all these different possesses. Maybe you find it interesting too.

 

[cristos71]

Very interesting to see all the processes needed to re-print a dial. Unfortunately the end result isn't all that good.

 

[sheepdoll]

Reminds me of the jugglers at the Renaissance faire.

"We are professionals; don't do this at home."


The machine I saw was linear and used glass plates. Steel plates can also be used. Copper or brass is more 19th century, and wood 16th century.

It is all about how well the plates are engraved.
There are also photo etch resist processes used. Not to mention thin film plating.


The jewelry lab I spent many of my 1990s weekends had a silk screen machine. That is also what put the details on Printed circuit boards. I have a modified card press what was used for putting the numbers on chip packages.


The rollers on my press are naff. New rollers can be made out of (I kid you not) Gummy bears (or any of that type candy.)

The pad is actually made from gelatin. Although it can also be made from silicone. (not to be confused with silicon the element.) Remember silicon makes transistors. Silicone transforms sisters.

 

[Valle de Joux]

Thanks for sharing this interesting video.

 

[Delroyb]

sheepdoll

Reminds me of the jugglers at the Renaissance faire.


The pad is actually made from gelatin. Although it can also be made from silicone. (not to be confused with silicon the element.) Remember silicon makes transistors. Silicone transforms sisters.

I remember the despair of one of my sub-editors that I was forever cocking this one up.

 

[gbesq]

I liken dial refinishing to prrinting counterfeit currency. There are a few masters of the art who can produce a refinished dial that will fool most of the people most of the time. That being said, an astute collector with the requisite knowledge will still be able to distinguish even the best redial from an original.

 

[sheepdoll]

Without the plates and ink formulas. A refinished dial will always be a refinished dial.

Think of the dial being the vin plate of a car. As Omega collectors we are lucky with serial numbers. Come to think of I have never seen rolex serial number charts. (why does the damn spell checker keep telling me to capitalize the R or the V in victorian.)
Most of the watches like the landerons (even the venus and valjoux) have no serial numbers on the plates.
Such movements were sold to whomever stamped the dial.

US customs insisted the balance bridge. (which can not be written as balance cock on ebay messages) Be marked with a three letter code. I have seen watches with this marked using a dremel spriral engraver. And these parts can be easy used to franken a rolex, even a Heuer or other mass marketed watch.


With over 8 billion (and likely three times that) watches in this world there has to be value somewhere. Why not the case and dial.

Beauty really is only skin deep.

I personally would choose a decent repainted dial over a patinaed one. On the other hand I am trying to find parts for dials I got 30 years ago. What I was going to use to learn to do a decent job dialing with.

I find the process fascinating. I also expect down the road to make some new leather and denim straps.

And then there are buckles ...

 

[maximilian g]

hen

This is really impressive to me who don`t know whats going on with all these different possesses. Maybe you find it interesting too.

Thank you for uploading this. Member 81640

It's very interesting,the guy repainting the dial is an artist in his own right and very skilled.

Like alot of other people on this forum, I have dials that are varying in finish from pristine to definitely in need of restoration and also some that may require repainting. I have thought about this on more than one occasion but have never done it for fear of getting back a bad watch dial either over done or just badly done, that has ruined the watch.

I collect SM300's and have 166.0324, one which I use and others that I keep pristine,and period 166.0024's & 165.0024's. I would look at restoring some of the period SM300’s that have had water ingress if bad, like reluming them, or restoring them, not ever repainting them unless fubar'd.( Though in all honesty I would source a replacement period dial and keep the original one with it.
I would never restore a military dial, as I feel they have a history that is integral to the service and circumstances its been through which sets them apart from the non military watches. Also ones that I have that have been genuinely used as divers watches, as again the scars are part of their history.

I have over the years bought some of those and met the original owners and they have kindly agreed to write a history of their working lives and added photos which I think is quite cool.

This is only my opinion.
Again Thanks a good post

Edited: Apr 8, 2024

 

[Pixitfecit]

Yeah its part of their history. Always more into watches with patina then into watches with redials or which have been polished - a turn off. Nevertheless nicely done and interesting to watch.

 

[wagudc]

sheepdoll

US customs insisted the balance bridge. (which can not be written as balance cock on ebay messages)

That's funny, ebay must think you are into some sort of obscene circus acts.

 

[RevZMan123]

Legit work?
Forgery?
Restoration?
Where does the line get drawn? Will you get a paper with a star that says it was redone so 50 years from now someone will know it was redone?
I wonder if any modern reseller use this method of having so many perfect dialed watches sold from their shops as "original dial"? It is physically the "original" dial after all.

 

[Olhenry56]

Interesting. I'm not familiar with this reference, but it looks to me like the watch had already been redialed before, based on the subdial. So no harm done, I suppose, unless the owner tries to sell it as an original dial.

 

[Pixitfecit]

Olhenry56

Interesting. I'm not familiar with this reference, but it looks to me like the watch had already been redialed before, based on the subdial. So no harm done, I suppose, unless the owner tries to sell it as an original dial.

Had the same thought on my mind!

 

[Zman4eva]

I came across their new video on very desirable arrowhead pie pan dial. Interesting process but the end results on the text and minute markers were not good at all. Minute markers were way too thick, placement were off, and the font isn't close. Bad redial to me.

The original dial looked pretty good so I don't understand why someone would want it re-dialed. Big shame on that dial.

 

[Davidt]

It’s really interesting the levels of effort involved to strip the old dial of the applied markers, paint and lacquer, degrease and prepare the dial, repaint, then reapply and polish the makers. After all that, the result is really very far away from a factory finish.
Why is that, what was the technique used at the factory and why now 50+ years later cant it be replicated wel?

 

[Zman4eva]

Davidt

It’s really interesting the levels of effort involved to strip the old dial of the applied markers, paint and lacquer, degrease and prepare the dial, repaint, then reapply and polish the makers. After all that, the result is really very far away from a factory finish.
Why is that, what was the technique used at the factory and why now 50+ years later cant it be replicated wel?

The answer is probably money. If someone can create superclones of Rolexes then they can make a perfect replica of these dials. There's not enough demand or money involved to get to that level of accuracy.

The other factor may be the end consumer. This result may be "good enough" for the person requesting a redial. Outside of this forum, I think most people would say that dial is very close to the original even if it isn't to the trained eye.

 

[sheepdoll]

Of course the irony is that I am considering repainting the bad dials I have. A continuation from decades old project.

In answer to why this can not be done as it was 50+ years ago is that it is counterfeiting. I have noted this above in this thread and other places. The plates are hard to copy. I suspect even in the day, there was high attrition.

I notice that they do not keep the furniture in order which requires things to be reamed out and glued in.

The process shown is interesting, but the results do not indicate the person using the old machines is making any effort to be faithful. More along the lines of good enough. Sad in a way of society, that they can not be rewarded for being original and creating something new.

The equipment seems to be capable of much better work. I suspect that the machine operator does not have the artistic engraving skills to match the fonts. It is possible the plates were cut by hand with a keen eye and a steady grip on the engraver. Penmanship is not a skill valued as much since the advent of the xerox machine.


I still have old postscript programs for creating decal dials. Matching the fonts was always something I was going to do later and still plan to do somewhere down the line. I actually took time this morning to trace some quickset parts for the assortments I have. It would not be that much of a step to cut out a dial blank from sheet brass. I already traced and cut a movement holder last week. If I am working at this then hundreds or thousands of others are thinking about this as well.

This dial should never have been one for repainting.


(while I was typing this @Zman4eva responded in a similar way.)

 

[Davidt]

As @Zman4eva points out though, many modern fakes have much better quality dials at a similar or lower price point to a vintage Constellation so cost alone can’t be a factor.

Is it economies of scale in that many modern fakes are now manufactured on an industrial scale with modern equipment, whereas perhaps most redials are done individually?

A common feature of most redials seems to be the overly heavy printing, this must be a result of the process used rather than the skill of the user or more would be getting it right. Perhaps as @Zman4eva says, so many end users think it’s good enough, there’s insufficient market forces at play to warrant a higher quality redial service being offered?

 

[JimInOz]

sheepdoll

Remember silicon makes transistors. Silicone transforms sisters.

🤣

 

[lejaune]

Looking at the pre-redial conditions, I think it's more reasonable or acceptable to have the 1st dial (moon phase) reburbished than to have the Constellation dial done. I would be perfectly fine wearing the Connie daily as it was, but probably won't wear the moon phase.