Weems research question

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 4, 2024

Hi Everybody!

I have a question for the brain trust. I think I'm going to get serious this year about finding a decent Longines, or maybe Wittnauer Weems. What are some of the better books or websites I should peruse to help develop my knowledge?

Thanks in advance.

 

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gatorcpa

·Feb 4, 2024·ΩF InvestiGator

Not sure which of the Weems watches you are interested in.

There are so many variations on these. Different sizes, second setting, sidereal time, locking bezels, military vs. civilian, etc. etc.

This old post from WatchUSeek has a lot of the variations and several reference websites.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/history-of-a-legendary-pilots-watch-–-longines-weems.4846003/

This should get you started.
gatorcpa

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 4, 2024

They don't call you the investigator for nothing.

To clarify: I'm thinking a Longines / Wittnauer A-11, but maybe a civilian version. The locking bezel is really the only thing I am truly looking for right now. I doubt I could afford a second setting one or a sidereal one, as I believe they are rarer and more expensive than the A-11 (at least that is what it looks like on ebay). I know that the A-11came in at least two sizes but doesn't matter all that much either. This will be my first foray into this particular watch, so I am not yet too picky.

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 6, 2024

Seiji

Author John Golderberger. Probably should go for the RAF Weems 6B/159 MK VIIA

Thank you for the advice Seiji. Why do you suggest the RAF Weems over the A-11 Weems? Is it the size?

 

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Mark020

·Feb 7, 2024·not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer

Nice straps btw

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 7, 2024

@Seiji thank you for all the information. Your Weems collection is staggering.

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 7, 2024

Seiji

Yes size and the USAAC 1940 A-11 is nearly impossible to find in correct form. Very hazardous trying to buy the genuine Army Air Corps watch. I still don't have a perfect one after finding three of them. I also have the very rare 1941 A-11 Longines. Plenty of chances to get RAF 6B and they are in far better condition.

Anything else from the military version of these is just like wearing a ladies watch.

@Seiji , would you mind expanding on this? What's wrong with your three A-11s?

Additionally, what's your opinion of the Wittnauer Weems?

 

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gatorcpa

·Feb 8, 2024·ΩF InvestiGator

Seiji

The civilian version seems to have done far better commercially, plenty of people idolizing Lindbergh and Earhart wanted one.

To illustrate @Seiji’s point:

If you choose to go civilian, good luck if you want to collect the box. Think I’ve seen exactly one complete example.

I have one example:

Civilian, possibly a redial. But it was cheap and in very good shape. It is almost unusably small.

Best of luck to you in your search.
gatorcpa

Edited: Feb 8, 2024

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 8, 2024

@Seiji thank you again. I will avoid any Wittnauer's like they have the plague.

The RAF Weems was also produced my Movado, LeCoultre, and Omega, correct? Are any of those worth looking at?

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 8, 2024

I like all the Longines quite a bit. The thumb lock Baby Lindy you mentioned is very cool, and I would be as pleased as a pig in mud with one of them. That big Japanese one is incredible, but realistically it's far out of my price range.

I will be sure to not pass over one of the other RAF Weems if I encounter a decent one.

What are those numbers on the LeCoultre? A serial number? They look like they we stamped with a rubber stamp.

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 9, 2024

@Seiji that is just too cool. I love that you can see your Longines peaking out in that photo of you with the Zero. Your collection of number plates is outstanding.

The closest thing I have that corelates is an old dzus fasteners tool for removing the cowling on various US Navy aircraft. My grandad was a plane captain for fighters right after WWII through Korea. The aircraft he worked on the most was the F4U, but he had experience with a few Gruman aircraft as well and held the F6F in high regard, despite it being quickly superceded when he went in.

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

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Syrte

·Feb 9, 2024

The RAF Weems was also made by Zenith, Movado and Omega.All three of those have the exact same cases and crowns.
They are much more rare and have traditionally fetched higher prices than the Longines and LeCoultre Weems. the Zenith and Movado are almost as rare as hen’s teeth so there’s no real point hunting one down for them if you’re possibly interested in any of the others.
The Omega having been featured in the Dunkirk movie has become even more sought after than it previously was.

Finally there’s another kind we haven’t mentioned, but it’s also very rare, and it is the US LeCoultre A11 Weems. I only have seen two on the open market since I’ve been interested in them which is almost 10 years now— and one of those two is mine. (Pics below). I’m only aware of two or maybe three other people owning one of those,

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 9, 2024

I'm starting to feel like a guy who set out to go fishing with his #15 test and has hooked a #30 fish. As these watches keep getting more rarified as we go.

@Syrte that is an incredible watch, but I won't be looking for one. Even if I were lucky enough to find one, I don't have deep enough pockets.

 

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Dsloan

·Feb 9, 2024

I really like the look of these, and I also enjoy learning about the history of timing and navigation. Last time I was at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum they had a whole area devoted to clocks and navigation - from pocket watches to atomic clocks.

However, are all the RAF Weems small by modern standards? I'm cursed with rather large wrists and anything below ~35mm feels really tiny to me.

 

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Syrte

·Feb 10, 2024

Seiji

Wow! I'm impressed!

What do you think I was doing on MWR ? 😁
Within a month of joining, all I really cared about was Weems watches.
But I prefer 33-34mm on my wrist and I never had the patience to figure out the navigation system.

 

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SpeedyPhill

·Feb 10, 2024

David Harper talking about a 1940 Longines "" Battle of Britain "" pilots' watch:
YouTube searc for:
The watch that DEFENDED BRITIAN’S AIRSPACE in 1940
.
Edit: as video cannot be shared, a screenshot of Longines 2916/40
.

Edited: Feb 10, 2024

 

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Lépine

·Feb 10, 2024

Here is the letter from the Smithsonian tying my watch to his watch. 300+ watches were made for I believe North Island San Diego Naval Airbase where extensive testing was done. Sorry my watch is locked up in a bank far away. I'd otherwise retake the caseback photo since I'm less paranoid these days. The individual number is over 300s. If I recall correctly, P.V.H. 's individual number is around 170s ???

This was another watch that wrecked havoc on my credit score for 18 months... Sidereal are rare watches...ones that retained there stars even more rare. The stars most likely were viewed as communist so they were removed. A lot of the present day two star dials are Longines original factory dials collectors sourced through hard work or the watch was not for USA market. Stars should be straight and crisp. Some bleed is correct. Otherwise if the stars aren't straight and the right shape, the dial is a fake. The enamel print on an original dial is incredibly precise.

Edited: Feb 10, 2024

 

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Lépine

·Feb 10, 2024

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 10, 2024

Here is an article I came across on the USNA Weems, as well as bit about the development of Weems watches in general. @Seiji you are referenced in it a few times, so I reckon you are familiar with this one.

https://flightbirds.net/us-naval-academy-weems-a-rare-breed-pedigree/

 

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Syrte

·Feb 10, 2024

Waltesefalcon

@Syrte that is an incredible watch, but I won't be looking for one. Even if I were lucky enough to find one, I don't have deep enough pockets.

Interestingly I think mine was a bit under the radar when I bought it. Its price and value were pretty much the same of the RAF LeCoultre Weems, even though I personally preferred the US version. Now it turns out to be much more rare, the difference is probably hard to price.