Weems research question

[Waltesefalcon]

I like all the Longines quite a bit. The thumb lock Baby Lindy you mentioned is very cool, and I would be as pleased as a pig in mud with one of them. That big Japanese one is incredible, but realistically it's far out of my price range.

I will be sure to not pass over one of the other RAF Weems if I encounter a decent one.

What are those numbers on the LeCoultre? A serial number? They look like they we stamped with a rubber stamp.

 

[Seiji]

Good question, I believe the dial numbers are the issue numbers. But like a lot of military watches, they went to the repair depot in bucket loads and came back all mixed up. No one at the time really cared to put the movement back into the matching cases. It was more important to get watches available to the pilots.

 

[Seiji]

I thought this might be interesting. I photographed one of my Imperial Japanese Navy Weems with a serial number plate from a Nakajima or Mitubishi Zero Fighter. I have a letter from the person that owns the wreckage who seems to have given up on restoring the plane.



This got me into looking for other serial number plates (data plates) of Imperial Japanese Navy fighter planes. I have found 5.

Thanks to Omegafanman (Alan arranged the trip, huge effort!) and the Duxford Museum, I was able to see and touch this all original unrestored Zero A6M2 (or A6M3?). Most Zeros that are restored and in display or flying condition are 90% brand new creations. I think not sure, the landing gear and serial number plate is all is required to register a Zero as "original". WW2 aircraft is like vintage Ferrari, the serial number plate is the most important item. If you have it, you can literally build everything else and it is "original".



It was great to reunite these legends together. This is IJN #946.


I have #832 and #946

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

[Waltesefalcon]

@Seiji that is just too cool. I love that you can see your Longines peaking out in that photo of you with the Zero. Your collection of number plates is outstanding.

The closest thing I have that corelates is an old dzus fasteners tool for removing the cowling on various US Navy aircraft. My grandad was a plane captain for fighters right after WWII through Korea. The aircraft he worked on the most was the F4U, but he had experience with a few Gruman aircraft as well and held the F6F in high regard, despite it being quickly superceded when he went in.

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

[Syrte]

The RAF Weems was also made by Zenith, Movado and Omega.All three of those have the exact same cases and crowns.
They are much more rare and have traditionally fetched higher prices than the Longines and LeCoultre Weems. the Zenith and Movado are almost as rare as hen’s teeth so there’s no real point hunting one down for them if you’re possibly interested in any of the others.
The Omega having been featured in the Dunkirk movie has become even more sought after than it previously was.

Finally there’s another kind we haven’t mentioned, but it’s also very rare, and it is the US LeCoultre A11 Weems. I only have seen two on the open market since I’ve been interested in them which is almost 10 years now— and one of those two is mine. (Pics below). I’m only aware of two or maybe three other people owning one of those,

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

[Waltesefalcon]

I'm starting to feel like a guy who set out to go fishing with his #15 test and has hooked a #30 fish. As these watches keep getting more rarified as we go.

@Syrte that is an incredible watch, but I won't be looking for one. Even if I were lucky enough to find one, I don't have deep enough pockets.

 

[Dsloan]

I really like the look of these, and I also enjoy learning about the history of timing and navigation. Last time I was at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum they had a whole area devoted to clocks and navigation - from pocket watches to atomic clocks.



However, are all the RAF Weems small by modern standards? I'm cursed with rather large wrists and anything below ~35mm feels really tiny to me.

 

[Seiji]

Syrte

The RAF Weems was also made by Zenith, Movado and Omega.All three of those have the exact same cases and crowns.
They are much more rare and have traditionally fetched higher prices than the Longines and LeCoultre Weems. the Zenith and Movado are almost as rare as hen’s teeth so there’s no real point hunting one down for them if you’re possibly interested in any of the others.
The Omega having been featured in the Dunkirk movie has become even more sought after than it previously was.

Finally there’s another kind we haven’t mentioned, but it’s also very rare, and it is the US LeCoultre A11 Weems. I only have seen two on the open market since I’ve been interested in them which is almost 10 years now— and one of those two is mine. (Pics below). I’m only aware of two or maybe three other people owning one of those,

Wow! I'm impressed!

 

[Seiji]

Dsloan

I really like the look of these, and I also enjoy learning about the history of timing and navigation. Last time I was at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum they had a whole area devoted to clocks and navigation - from pocket watches to atomic clocks.

My watch is from the same batch as P.V.H. Weems' watch at the Smithsonian. There were slightly more than 310 ordered.I got an email confirming this information from the Smithsonian.

 

[Seiji]

If you like really rare oddities. This is a chrome over silver Lindbergh Hour Angle that there are exact three remaining. The chrome plating was requirement of this Italian WW2 order. The plating was done by Longines for whatever reason...to counteract tarnishing which made the bezel hard to read? Steel was apparently a bad option for the intended use. Corrosion may have been a concern...Trans Atlantic flights?



Author Andrew Tolley


Wiki

Edited: Feb 9, 2024

 

[Syrte]

Seiji

Wow! I'm impressed!

What do you think I was doing on MWR ?
Within a month of joining, all I really cared about was Weems watches.
But I prefer 33-34mm on my wrist and I never had the patience to figure out the navigation system.

 

[SpeedyPhill]

David Harper talking about a 1940 Longines "" Battle of Britain "" pilots' watch:
YouTube searc for:
The watch that DEFENDED BRITIAN’S AIRSPACE in 1940
.
Edit: as video cannot be shared, a screenshot of Longines 2916/40
.

Edited: Feb 10, 2024

 

[Seiji]

Here is the letter from the Smithsonian tying my watch to his watch. 300+ watches were made for I believe North Island San Diego Naval Airbase where extensive testing was done. Sorry my watch is locked up in a bank far away. I'd otherwise retake the caseback photo since I'm less paranoid these days. The individual number is over 300s. If I recall correctly, P.V.H. 's individual number is around 170s ???

This was another watch that wrecked havoc on my credit score for 18 months... Sidereal are rare watches...ones that retained there stars even more rare. The stars most likely were viewed as communist so they were removed. A lot of the present day two star dials are Longines original factory dials collectors sourced through hard work or the watch was not for USA market. Stars should be straight and crisp. Some bleed is correct. Otherwise if the stars aren't straight and the right shape, the dial is a fake. The enamel print on an original dial is incredibly precise.

Edited: Feb 10, 2024

 

[Seiji]

 

[Waltesefalcon]

Here is an article I came across on the USNA Weems, as well as bit about the development of Weems watches in general. @Seiji you are referenced in it a few times, so I reckon you are familiar with this one.

https://flightbirds.net/us-naval-academy-weems-a-rare-breed-pedigree/

 

[Seiji]

Waltesefalcon

Here is an article I came across on the USNA Weems, as well as bit about the development of Weems watches in general. @Seiji you are referenced in it a few times, so I reckon you are familiar with this one.

https://flightbirds.net/us-naval-academy-weems-a-rare-breed-pedigree/

Ah..., yes Andy and I did discuss a lot about the Annapolis and I did provide the parts breakdown photos of my two weems. He did a very good article !

 

[Syrte]

Waltesefalcon

@Syrte that is an incredible watch, but I won't be looking for one. Even if I were lucky enough to find one, I don't have deep enough pockets.

Interestingly I think mine was a bit under the radar when I bought it. Its price and value were pretty much the same of the RAF LeCoultre Weems, even though I personally preferred the US version. Now it turns out to be much more rare, the difference is probably hard to price.

 

[Waltesefalcon]

My book, Air Navigation, written my P.V.H Weems in 1931 arrived today. Chapter twelve is devoted to time pieces and their use in navigation, and includes photos of the two basic models of Weems Longines as how they operate.

 

[Seiji]

Waltesefalcon

My book, Air Navigation, written my P.V.H Weems in 1931 arrived today. Chapter twelve is devoted to time pieces and their use in navigation, and includes photos of the two basic models of Weems Longines as how they operate.

It's a good book to have to build up the whole Weems experience. Did you note the small bezel Weems has a couple of interesting features? 1) It has no locking mechanism. 2) It has a bezel style unlike anything ever posted or displayed in a watch museum.

 

[Waltesefalcon]

Seiji

It's a good book to have to build up the whole Weems experience. Did you note the small bezel Weems has a couple of interesting features? 1) It has no locking mechanism. 2) It has a bezel style unlike anything ever posted or displayed in a watch museum.

I noticed the lack of the locking mechanism.

Is the bezel unique because it's not marked on the '5's?'