Weems research question

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 4, 2024

Hi Everybody!

I have a question for the brain trust. I think I'm going to get serious this year about finding a decent Longines, or maybe Wittnauer Weems. What are some of the better books or websites I should peruse to help develop my knowledge?

Thanks in advance.

 

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gatorcpa

·Feb 4, 2024·ΩF InvestiGator

Not sure which of the Weems watches you are interested in.

There are so many variations on these. Different sizes, second setting, sidereal time, locking bezels, military vs. civilian, etc. etc.

This old post from WatchUSeek has a lot of the variations and several reference websites.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/history-of-a-legendary-pilots-watch-–-longines-weems.4846003/

This should get you started.
gatorcpa

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 4, 2024

They don't call you the investigator for nothing.

To clarify: I'm thinking a Longines / Wittnauer A-11, but maybe a civilian version. The locking bezel is really the only thing I am truly looking for right now. I doubt I could afford a second setting one or a sidereal one, as I believe they are rarer and more expensive than the A-11 (at least that is what it looks like on ebay). I know that the A-11came in at least two sizes but doesn't matter all that much either. This will be my first foray into this particular watch, so I am not yet too picky.

 

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Seiji

·Feb 6, 2024

Author John Golderberger. Probably should go for the RAF Weems 6B/159 MK VIIA

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 6, 2024

Seiji

Author John Golderberger. Probably should go for the RAF Weems 6B/159 MK VIIA

Thank you for the advice Seiji. Why do you suggest the RAF Weems over the A-11 Weems? Is it the size?

 

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Seiji

·Feb 6, 2024

Yes size and the USAAC 1940 A-11 is nearly impossible to find in correct form. Very hazardous trying to buy the genuine Army Air Corps watch. I still don't have a perfect one after finding three of them. I also have the very rare 1941 A-11 Longines. Plenty of chances to get RAF 6B and they are in far better condition.

Anything else from the military version of these is just like wearing a ladies watch.

Edited: Feb 6, 2024

 

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Seiji

·Feb 6, 2024

If you're curious and ambitious. 1941 Longines A-11. Rare watch.It's bigger than the 1940 A-11., but has no bezel. Not well known that this watch exists.

 

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Seiji

·Feb 6, 2024

Personally, I like the Big Japanese. Get one and be done.

 

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Seiji

·Feb 7, 2024

My opinion...this is one of the most rare Weems to have ever been made other than a prototype. I am only aware of two gilt dials and this is the only no lock Annapolis Weems that has been posted with this rarest dial version. It is authenticated with Longines Archives as produced with the Annapolis dial, which means P.V.H. Weems ordered it for his navigational school in San Diego. These are 33mm. Not 28mm like the A-11 1940.

Edited: Feb 7, 2024

 

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Mark020

·Feb 7, 2024·not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer

Nice straps btw

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 7, 2024

@Seiji thank you for all the information. Your Weems collection is staggering.

 

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Seiji

·Feb 7, 2024

The Big Birds are definitely the End Game if you can pull the resources together. I'm honestly still paying off one of them for more than a year. My car cost me less YOLO.

At the time I prioritized my targets. The RAF 6B/159 MK VIIA was ranked low mainly due to availability. They seemed to be fairly plentiful a couple of years ago. Now, not so much. The size is reasonable at 34mm. The movement is rock solid with plenty of parts for a 12.68z. The looks a very nice with obvious aviation and military history. It was possible to find excellent condition ones for about $4000 USD in the UK. Now it's a little harder. You have to watchout for the Gold and Silver retailer casebacks to see if it is genuine. Compare against some known good ones, the differences with the fakes are subtle. It's a combination of stamped and engraved so look at detailed photos.

Edited: Feb 7, 2024

 

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Seiji

·Feb 7, 2024

These are not expensive for the size, a bit hard to to find with a proper dial. Should check for the baby lindy if you like the A-11. The Thumb lock one is cool in my opinion. Not for the hard core, but you might consider it.

Except a certain Japan watch dealer did have one with a near mint dial for over $10,000. That was insane. I would think an excellent condition one with patina would be far less than half that ask.

Edited: Feb 7, 2024

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 7, 2024

Seiji

Yes size and the USAAC 1940 A-11 is nearly impossible to find in correct form. Very hazardous trying to buy the genuine Army Air Corps watch. I still don't have a perfect one after finding three of them. I also have the very rare 1941 A-11 Longines. Plenty of chances to get RAF 6B and they are in far better condition.

Anything else from the military version of these is just like wearing a ladies watch.

@Seiji , would you mind expanding on this? What's wrong with your three A-11s?

Additionally, what's your opinion of the Wittnauer Weems?

 

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Seiji

·Feb 7, 2024

28mm Wittnauer Weems is garbage. I have one that I would not be surprised if I lost it on purpose. It's aluminum and the movement is junk. And there is no such thing as an A-11 Wittnauer. It was not military. The parts can not be used for a Longines. They don't fit. To go into details of all the issues of my A-11s is an academic paper. Suffice it to say a perfect A-11 is a hard to find watch. More difficult than finding a perfect 47mm Weems. There were I think only 1,200 A-11 1940 made. Pan Am recommended not using them for the Army Air Corp. Too small and too easy to break. It was issued for only 1 year and replaced.

The civilian version seems to have done far better commercially, plenty of people idolizing Lindbergh and Earhart wanted one. Kind of like Astronauts and the Omega moon watches.

Edited: Feb 8, 2024

 

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Seiji

·Feb 8, 2024

I think these Annapolis are hard to find, but are some of the most interesting Weems. Only made in 1937 and they changed so quickly in variants until finally evolving into the RAF Weems. These are grail watches that are about $3k to $7k.

 

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gatorcpa

·Feb 8, 2024·ΩF InvestiGator

Seiji

The civilian version seems to have done far better commercially, plenty of people idolizing Lindbergh and Earhart wanted one.

To illustrate @Seiji’s point:

If you choose to go civilian, good luck if you want to collect the box. Think I’ve seen exactly one complete example.

I have one example:

Civilian, possibly a redial. But it was cheap and in very good shape. It is almost unusably small.

Best of luck to you in your search.
gatorcpa

Edited: Feb 8, 2024

 

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Waltesefalcon

·Feb 8, 2024

@Seiji thank you again. I will avoid any Wittnauer's like they have the plague.

The RAF Weems was also produced my Movado, LeCoultre, and Omega, correct? Are any of those worth looking at?

 

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Seiji

·Feb 8, 2024

Waltesefalcon

@Seiji thank you again. I will avoid any Wittnauer's like they have the plague.

The RAF Weems was also produced my Movado, LeCoultre, and Omega, correct? Are any of those worth looking at?

Yes, absolutely. Probably much better prices too. I really like the LeCoutre. I think the Zenith and Movado cases are almost identical. Nicely made. Movado having been in the Dunkirk movie has a little trendy following at the moment.

Edited: Feb 8, 2024

 

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Seiji

·Feb 8, 2024

This was the one to get. Asking price was really reasonable. I just didn't have cash on me. RAF issued. See the numbers on the dial? This is a British Military LeCoultre. The LeCoutre were the probably the best of the best.