Mine is a 1675 from 1965, unfortunately dial and hands where changed through previous Rolex services, bought 2850£ 8 years ago, service paper included.

Pic below is prior of service, heavily polished, mismatched hands (tritium though):



Then, I had it fully serviced 3,5 years ago, including laser welding treatment at Laboratorio Portanova, to bring the watch case to its initial specs, including those lovely square crown guards; cost me an extra 950£

Below is the result:





So basically, I spent 3,8K overall ... and consider myself pretty happy with it even if some purists might say my 1675 is a kind of a franken.

I’d say I see my 1675 the way I see my SM300 Watchco, a solid watch for any everyday wear with a strong taste of vintage in it. (oh yeah I’ve fitted a submariner bracelet too )



Battered watches full of scars are for my military watches collection .... can’t even imagine refinishing any one of them actually.

 

Um...where did you have that casework done?

Those crown guards are insane! And that is the reason why I am skeptical about all of these crazy condition cases popping up.

LAWW will recut a case, but they will not add metal to lugs to make thicker...once you do that, you are getting into murky waters.

 

Very nice result ! I notice you also changed the insert...

 

... I love a faded insert. I love a patina dial. I love a fresh original, untouched looking case.

Put them together and something doesn’t seem right to me.

 

Does anyone here follow orchi palar on IG? If you’d like an eye opening experience into Rolex trickery, Id suggest checking out his page. He is a bit rough around the edges and has his flaws, but some of his observations are incredibly insightful (and hilariously presented).

 

You mean, buddy Orchi?

 

Here : http://www.laboratorioportanova.eu/

 

Errrr.....yes

 

This is really scary and impressive at the same time. It is impressive to see refinishing results. The level of competence needed - wow!

But really scary since these watches will be sold as all original sooner or later... I see the following sequence before me:

Seller 1 (that refinished the watch: "it is Serviced an refinished"

Seller 2: "It is Serviced and hands are relumed"

Seller 3: "Hands are probably relumed"

Seller 4: "Hands are possibly relumed, but I don't really think so"

Seller 5: "to the best of my knowledge, its all original"

And that is if everyone is fairly honest, the sequence can of course be 1 or 2 persons long as well...

Too much money to be made in being dishonest

 

We’re back to ‘how many hands has a watch been through?’

 

the last few years have seen crazy advances in what the forgers can do. to be honest, im not sure id be comfortable purchasing anymore vintage Rolex from anyone besides the creme de la creme dealers, "barn finds" not withstanding. here is my 16750 i bought several years back. im not sure if it is unpolished or not but it is damn close, imo. excuse the 7836 on it, this was taken while i was still looking for a 78360 with the correct date stamp on the clasp.

 

Lemme guess which kitchen table you prefer based on your remarks.

 

Merci @Ludi for sharing your experience and the results... This is exactly the kind of before/after analysis I was hoping to see, similarly to what @djmusicman has shown can be done to fix botched crown guards. This is enlightening.

If one factors in @ANALOGUE 's sales pitch evolution model, which is something I had in my mind too but he described it perfectly, and we add all the dial/hands refinishing techniques mentionned in the past 6 pages, this means there is no friggin' way to figure out what is original vs. what isn't.

@Ludi's watchco comparison is very appropriate - watchco's (and cousin's and the other's!) SM are a genuinely enjoyable product... they sell for 1/3rd to 1/4th of the price of a genuine one, and none of the sellers is trying to make any possible buyer that they're the real deal.

Thanks everyone - this thread is beating all my "learning experience" expectations. Those who posted that precious information that usually remains hush-hush but to a small proportion of the collectors have all my gratitude.

 

Sadly, I think it will become worse and not better...

Will this in the end make the market crach as all vintage Rolex will have to be priced as "bad lemons"?

Or will it just lead to huge premium for the very top top notch dealers?

Or just smaller premium for top condition (as non-perfect perhaps could be assumed more honest)?

One can at least see great risk here...

Lyckily I like Tissot and other less expensive brands...

 

All the tell tale signs of a refinished case here... just kidding but if you did find out that yours had been refinished then it would still be the same watch. It's just polishing technique. If yours does ever get dinged up and needs a polish then I guess you'll instruct the watchmaker to use a good old fashioned and honest polishing wheel

How do you think the top dealers manage to consistently find untouched watches?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=397937



Sold for CHF408,500. So were the bidders all ill informed idiots or were they bidding on a fantastic looking and historically important watch and could live with the possibility that a few parts might have been changed over its 60 year lifetime?

 

Found my old pics, before/ after, for educational purpose only

 

On completely different note, I find it interesting that both Omega and Rolex use both metric and imperial units on their watches when indicating depths etc. I know this relates in many way to old nautical tradition et al but also a sensible respect for all their markets respective preferences.

Back to the matter at hand, i am learning A LOT from you all. Thank you. It really makes you cautious about buying any second hand watch in decent condition, which is oxymoronic compared to every other time one buys second hand goods. Oh well.

 

No idea..

Maybe refinishing will be "ok" in the future, but today you would expect to get a lot less for a refininhed watch that a mint original one. So, in my world the prices will have to get together if it becomes impossible to tell. Either refinished goes up or the mint original down?

Basically, When you can't tell the difference between two watches, they got to have the same price?

 

The logic says, if enough people think they could end up paying x% more for a watch which they thought was (and wanted!) 100% original, but isn't - i.e. the value equation is imbalanced - then prices should drop. Or, more realistically, in the case of red-hot vintage Rolexes, at least the current price increase rate should slow down; because more and more people (demand) are likely jumping on the bandwagon, granted, but not at the pre-cat-out-of-the-bag rate. Because if you know there's a chance you're getting s**ewed, why would you risk paying as much as when you'd expect not to get the shaft?

Net - this is infuriating...

 

Man, I've been thinking about this exact question given the recent run-up in almost all highly sought after SS tool watches.

In a market where the substitute condition (e.g. relumed hands / recut case) becomes almost unrecognizable from the original, the price premium should all but disappear. I strongly believe relumed hands / dials will reach this parity later in our collective experience. Otherwise the logical path would be to continuously buy "rough" watches and then just put in the money to fix the case / relume hands / update the dial.

Originality may still command a premium, but there will be higher and higher requirements to prove that originality.